{Replica} Why STEM studies make sense: help, lack of skilled workers!


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According to a recent study by the Stifterverband für die Deutsche Wissenschaft, new strategies for more MINT graduates (in mathematics, computer science, natural sciences and engineering sciences) are urgently needed to close the gap in MINT specialists.

{Replica} Why STEM studies make sense: help, lack of skilled workers! {Replica} Why STEM studies make sense: help, lack of skilled workers!


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Simone Janson Simone JansonSimone Janson is publisher, German Top20 blogger and Consultant for HR communication.

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This entry contains content and information that may be out of date, eg due to legal or statistical changes. Because it can still be helpful to get an overview of the topic, you can still find it here.

More women in MINT professions

The reason for the young miserable is demographic change: In Germany, every year significantly more engineers retire than new to work, and the gap is getting bigger every year.

In the future, VDI expects the 2008-launched project MINT Role Models to showcase women's skills in engineering disciplines and to support the young female in the course of their studies and professional choice, a boost for women in engineering professions.

Germany at the end of the ranking

With this trend, Germany is still at the end of the list of all OECD countries. This is particularly dramatic because the Federal Republic has a much higher share of the gross domestic product than almost all other leading industries.

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The crisis has hardly affected the major structural trends, but this is not the case. Germany's lead in future-oriented efficiency technologies is threatening to melt as experts say, because there is a lack of young talent in these interdisciplinary sectors.

Since the graduates of the MINT subjects strongly contribute to research and innovation, we would point out that the lack of young researchers could have a particularly negative effect on the future innovative power of Germany.

What to do about it?

Therefore, one is now active: With a new competition, the Founders' Association and the Heinz Nixdorf Foundation want to encourage higher education institutions to develop sustainable strategies for more MINT graduates.

The colleges should inspire more undergraduate students for the MINT subjects, increase their academic success (ie lower drop-out rates) and attract and retain more foreign students. Until the 10. October 2009 can join universities for a total of 1,6 million in funding apply, It is to be promoted up to six universities. More information:

Promotion of STEM subjects especially for women

The promotion of STEM subjects, however, is something that has been written by the Federal Employment Agency on its flags - and especially for women. Initiatives such as increasing female prospects for these subjects should be won.

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In itself a nice idea, but for me it always seems a bit as if the federal agency would work with these actions two birds with one stone: less unemployed women on the one hand, fewer vacancies on the other and already is Statistics again smooth. It is questionable whether such programs can really inspire more women for MINT subjects.

Number of unemployed engineers dropped for the first time again

In June 2009, the number of unemployed engineers has declined for the first time in six months. Compared to the previous month, the number decreased slightly by 0,2 percent on nationwide around 25.000. In June, 59.000 engineers could not be occupied. The engineering gap during the observation period amounted to 35.000 persons.

With regard to the individual occupational groups, the largest gap with scarcely 16.000 remained with the machine and vehicle engineers, while with the electrical engineers it stagnated at 8.700. From a regional point of view, as in the previous month, Baden-Württemberg had the largest gap with 7.600 engineers - followed by North Rhine-Westphalia and Bavaria.

Rhineland-Palatinate and Saarland, there is an increase in vacancies

The engineer monitor of the month June focuses on the federal states Rhineland-Palatinate and the Saarland. Here again a positive development of the open engineering places shows since April - in 2009 4.000 76 in June and thus 3.100 per cent more than at the low in March of this yearly. Due to the increase in vacancies and declining unemployment figures, the engineering gap in Rhineland-Palatinate and Saarland has grown contrary to the general trend and amounted to XNUMX persons in June.

The need for machine and vehicle construction engineers (1.757) is also greatest in these federal states because both Saarland and Rhineland-Palatinate are important locations for the automotive and supply industries. The most important industry in Rhineland-Palatinate is the chemical industry. Here, above all, mechanical engineers are also sought.

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Monthly current data: engineer monitor of the VDI and IW Cologne

The "Engineer Monitor" provides extensive monthly data and facts about the engineering job market and highlights each state or region. The macroeconomic job vacancies in the engineering segment, unemployment figures and gaps in skilled workers as well as the comparison to the previous month are considered. In addition, the engineering monitor focuses on the engineering labor market in a region and shows the developments over the past nine years.

The monitor is available free of charge and can be subscribed online (vdi.de/studien) or as a brochure. The compilation is offered by VDI in cooperation with the Institut der deutschen Wirtschaft in Cologne.


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  25. Lars Hahn

    So there are diploma theses in times of Bologna! ;)

    Hello Mr. Beck,
    if you would like to ask the engineering gap times, I would have a few points of view to the usual sites like:
    http://www.vdi.de/41790.0.html
    http://www.mintzukunftschaffen.de/mint-luecke-20.html
    Svenja Hofert has already shed some light on this in her blog:
    http://karriereblog.svenja-hofert.de/2011/09/der-grose-bluff-mit-mint-geruch/

    I think there are a lot of skilled workers in many industries, even a long-term lack of care. However, the argumentation in public discussion is often unilaterally determined by interests of workers' demand. This could eventually lead to an excess of certain MINT traps, as it is bent and broken.

    Exciting is the theme.

    In this sense,
    good luck with your work!
    I am also curious!
    Lars Hahn

  26. Simone Janson

    Hello Mr. Beck,
    First of all, I find the topic of your diploma thesis very exciting and I would be pleased if you would make my diploma thesis results available to me and my readers after completion / publication.
    My opinion is reflected in the last two articles of my series:
    Namely, that the topic is on the one hand much too polemically discussed and one must, for example, first have to consider what is actually meant by professional force. Asked: Is not everyone a specialist anywhere? That on the other hand some companies want to continue to be comfortable with the selection of candidates and therefore the skilled labor force somewhat cynically as a marketing tool. While other companies do not really find any suitable people (which in turn may or may not have other reasons). In short: a differentiated view is necessary and the whole topic is unfortunately far too generalized. I do not believe in a large-scale conspiracy, as suggested by some commentators. Rather to many small shortcomings.

    On the other hand, the marketing lie is gladly too readily believed - by universities, graduates, students and there is the shortage of professionals all somehow quite comfortable. I have written a little rant here:

    I am looking forward to your diploma thesis.
    Regards
    Simone Janson

  27. Rafael Beck

    Dear Mrs. Janson, I am currently writing a diploma thesis on the MINT's defensive strength in Germany and the possibilities of education policy and educational offenses to avoid the shortage.

    I have read through your articles and rummaged through the comments with pleasure.

    I now have a question for you personally: What conclusions do you draw from the discussion about the MINT expert deficit in Germany?

    It would be nice to know how you are to this controversial discussion.

    Sincerely,

    Rafael Beck

  28. Liane Wolffgang

    Question about the Diploma Thesis: The Discussion about the MINT Skills Shortage: Dear Mrs. Janson, I am writing ...

  29. Emery Obermeyer

    Very good. Thanks for share it.

  30. Emery Obermeyer

    Very good. Thanks for share it.

  31. Roberto Helchheim

    Simone Janson says: (15 March 2010 at 08: 21)
    “..This is also due to the fact that, in my opinion, the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a comparatively safe thing and then apply for the relevant courses. .." Really ? Go to your "employment agency", his first official act is to go to the Brunel / Ferchau website and the like in the browser and to tell you "apply there". I experienced it myself, I really had to control myself, otherwise a criminal record would have been created about me. If I called up the side of the competition at my workplace, I would be put on the street immediately. Rightly so! ***
    But the problem in Germany is I think completely different.
    I am looking for a really good digital camera (SLR format), for example. It can cost a lot of money. The only condition that must (exclusively!) Be designed and manufactured in Germany. Strangely, I don't find any. Would also choose internships, Leica, etc., but are they 100% made here? I can hardly imagine. Does anyone understand that? It is clear, as long as I only select foreign products for PCs, laptops, cameras, cars, ... I shouldn't be surprised that there is no longer any need for production here. Am I the only one who notices this? As far as I can remember, the term “Made in Germany” once stood for a worldwide high standard of manufacture, production and quality. Maybe I should also do the “Master” to understand all of this. I just have tears when I see our know-how without batting an eye to Malaysia / China / Russia / etc. will be carried. The term “engineer” used to stand for products that cannot be copied by every Fuzzi. “In the past” the American, for example, licked his fingers to read German Grundig data sheets because they were the only ones. Today I HAVE to read English data sheets here in Germany. Strange isn't it?

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Mr. Helchheim,
      thanks for your review - and the thorough reading of my past posts ;-)
      Certainly consumers' buying behavior also plays a role: I believe, however, that consumers are not only cheap to buy at any price but also willing to pay a little more if quality and / or service are right. Exactly with customer service and innovative ability lack however mE with German companies. A compulsory obligation to buy only German products would be the wrong way and would not work.
      gruß
      Simone Janson

  32. Roberto Helchheim

    Simone Janson says: (15 March 2010 at 08: 21)
    “..This is also due to the fact that, in my opinion, the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a comparatively safe thing and then apply for the relevant courses. .." Really ? Go to your "employment agency", his first official act is to go to the Brunel / Ferchau website and the like in the browser and to tell you "apply there". I experienced it myself, I really had to control myself, otherwise a criminal record would have been created about me. If I called up the side of the competition at my workplace, I would be put on the street immediately. Rightly so! ***
    But the problem in Germany is I think completely different.
    I am looking for a really good digital camera (SLR format), for example. It can cost a lot of money. The only condition that must (exclusively!) Be designed and manufactured in Germany. Strangely, I don't find any. Would also choose internships, Leica, etc., but are they 100% made here? I can hardly imagine. Does anyone understand that? It is clear, as long as I only select foreign products for PCs, laptops, cameras, cars, ... I shouldn't be surprised that there is no longer any need for production here. Am I the only one who notices this? As far as I can remember, the term “Made in Germany” once stood for a worldwide high standard of manufacture, production and quality. Maybe I should also do the “Master” to understand all of this. I just have tears when I see our know-how without batting an eye to Malaysia / China / Russia / etc. will be carried. The term “engineer” used to stand for products that cannot be copied by every Fuzzi. “In the past” the American, for example, licked his fingers to read German Grundig data sheets because they were the only ones. Today I HAVE to read English data sheets here in Germany. Strange isn't it?

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Mr. Helchheim,
      thanks for your review - and the thorough reading of my past posts ;-)
      Certainly consumers' buying behavior also plays a role: I believe, however, that consumers are not only cheap to buy at any price but also willing to pay a little more if quality and / or service are right. Exactly with customer service and innovative ability lack however mE with German companies. A compulsory obligation to buy only German products would be the wrong way and would not work.
      gruß
      Simone Janson

  33. Karen

    Hallo,

    here are a few links that can help you decide on emigration:

    Regards

    Karen

  34. Karen

    Hallo,

    here are a few links that can help you decide on emigration:

    Regards

    Karen

  35. Marcus M

    The statement by Karen regarding the promotion of employees can also be applied to Switzerland. Here in Switzerland, too, I have the feeling that Swiss companies are more willing to invest money in the human resource in the form of further education than is the case with some German companies. Also, the age structure in the department in which I work ranges from apprentice to employees who retire in 1 - 2 years.

    MFG
    Marcus

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Marcus,
      Thank you, that is a very interesting aspect.

  36. Marcus M

    The statement by Karen regarding the promotion of employees can also be applied to Switzerland. Here in Switzerland, too, I have the feeling that Swiss companies are more willing to invest money in the human resource in the form of further education than is the case with some German companies. Also, the age structure in the department in which I work ranges from apprentice to employees who retire in 1 - 2 years.

    MFG
    Marcus

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Marcus,
      Thank you, that is a very interesting aspect.

  37. Simone Janson

    Yes, but you had found something surprisingly fast. Another member of the discussion, too.
    So the short-sightedness of German companies?
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  38. Simone Janson

    Yes, but you had found something surprisingly fast. Another member of the discussion, too.
    So the short-sightedness of German companies?
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  39. Karen

    Hallo,

    not everyone who applies abroad will get a job immediately. It is only the case that everyone who goes out of Deuttschland has a place. You can only leave Germany if you have a job in the new country. Everything else would be an incalculable risk. However, it is so that one still gets a job abroad, because the companies, especially in Scandinavia, invest in the training and further education and thus also get a chance for graduates.

    Regards

    Karen

  40. Karen

    Hallo,

    not everyone who applies abroad will get a job immediately. It is only the case that everyone who goes out of Deuttschland has a place. You can only leave Germany if you have a job in the new country. Everything else would be an incalculable risk. However, it is so that one still gets a job abroad, because the companies, especially in Scandinavia, invest in the training and further education and thus also get a chance for graduates.

    Regards

    Karen

  41. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    an interesting aspect would perhaps be a comparison with foreign countries: Why do some people find a job there almost immediately, as has been described here - and not in Germany?

  42. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    an interesting aspect would perhaps be a comparison with foreign countries: Why do some people find a job there almost immediately, as has been described here - and not in Germany?

  43. Simone Janson

    I'm not sure if this is the case

  44. Simone Janson

    I'm not sure if this is the case

  45. Monika

    Hallo,

    I would like to commission a study on the topic of engineering deficiencies, and I would like to summarize the most important questions.
    Here is my previous collection with the request for further suggestions and additions. Thank you!
    • What is the percentage of engineers who regularly finish their work experience?
    • How many engineers are unemployed? How are you qualified? What about your mobility? What is the age structure?
    • What are the main reasons for unemployment among engineers?
    • For what reasons do engineers retire before reaching normal retirement age?
    • What is the share of engineers in secure employment relationships and fixed-term employment?
    • What is the percentage of engineers employed by temporary employment agencies or by engineering service providers?
    • What is the share of engineers in precarious occupational situations? What are the reasons for this?
    • What are the average salaries of engineers?

    • Simone Janson

      Dear Monika,
      I think this is a great idea. A corresponding study would also help me to make the topic public in the media. Perhaps one or the other still has a constructive suggestion.

  46. Monika

    Hallo,

    I would like to commission a study on the topic of engineering deficiencies, and I would like to summarize the most important questions.
    Here is my previous collection with the request for further suggestions and additions. Thank you!
    • What is the percentage of engineers who regularly finish their work experience?
    • How many engineers are unemployed? How are you qualified? What about your mobility? What is the age structure?
    • What are the main reasons for unemployment among engineers?
    • For what reasons do engineers retire before reaching normal retirement age?
    • What is the share of engineers in secure employment relationships and fixed-term employment?
    • What is the percentage of engineers employed by temporary employment agencies or by engineering service providers?
    • What is the share of engineers in precarious occupational situations? What are the reasons for this?
    • What are the average salaries of engineers?

    • Simone Janson

      Dear Monika,
      I think this is a great idea. A corresponding study would also help me to make the topic public in the media. Perhaps one or the other still has a constructive suggestion.

  47. Simone Janson

    Hello Leila, thanks for your comment and your experiences. This brings a whole new aspect to the topic.
    Wouldn't you happen to want to give me an interview on the subject of “Applying with a migration background”? Talk about your experience. I find that a very exciting topic and the shortage of skilled workers could also be treated in this way.
    If you are interested, just send an e-mail to redaktion@berufebilder.de.

    Simone Janson

  48. Simone Janson

    Hello Leila, thanks for your comment and your experiences. This brings a whole new aspect to the topic.
    Wouldn't you happen to want to give me an interview on the subject of “Applying with a migration background”? Talk about your experience. I find that a very exciting topic and the shortage of skilled workers could also be treated in this way.
    If you are interested, just send an e-mail to redaktion@berufebilder.de.

    Simone Janson

  49. Leila

    Hallo,

    I have read with interest the contributions that already go from March to today. Let me tell you my story and my experiences, even if all these stories are individual fates and you can not conclude on the general public. I have successfully completed my electrical engineering studies with a very good grade, have completed internships at major companies, speak 2006 languages, including English and Spanish fluently. Then I started my PhD Dr.Ing. at the university and will finish this soon. Well so far so good. It should also be mentioned that I am not 30 years old, but a woman with a migration background (this word should be the unwarrel of the year) live but since 25 years in Germany. I do not earn a lot at the university, especially in the field of e-technology we are funded by third-party funds, so I have access to the 2000 Euro NETTO every month. Unfortunately, I can not stay at the university forever and will have to look for something new after my dissertation. So I sent numerous applications to the industry, with the result that I only received cancellations. I am not even tied up and would move too. Lack of flexibility can not be accused me here.
    Well, but I do not find it appropriate to fall into complete despair. The fact is that you have to be lucky and to be in the right place at the right time. I hope so.

  50. Leila

    Hallo,

    I have read with interest the contributions that already go from March to today. Let me tell you my story and my experiences, even if all these stories are individual fates and you can not conclude on the general public. I have successfully completed my electrical engineering studies with a very good grade, have completed internships at major companies, speak 2006 languages, including English and Spanish fluently. Then I started my PhD Dr.Ing. at the university and will finish this soon. Well so far so good. It should also be mentioned that I am not 30 years old, but a woman with a migration background (this word should be the unwarrel of the year) live but since 25 years in Germany. I do not earn a lot at the university, especially in the field of e-technology we are funded by third-party funds, so I have access to the 2000 Euro NETTO every month. Unfortunately, I can not stay at the university forever and will have to look for something new after my dissertation. So I sent numerous applications to the industry, with the result that I only received cancellations. I am not even tied up and would move too. Lack of flexibility can not be accused me here.
    Well, but I do not find it appropriate to fall into complete despair. The fact is that you have to be lucky and to be in the right place at the right time. I hope so.

  51. Simone Janson

    Hello computer scientist,
    Thank you very much for this truly honest and partly self-critical report. Your statement is likely to be a problem many, just smaller companies - and that I as a self-employed: fluctuating order situation, no time to train employees with simultaneous lack of qualified people.
    Since in Germany the likes of the short-sightedness of the companies is threshed, which is partly justified. However, the entire economy is also moving in such a way that a long-term planning, as it was formerly used, is no longer possible.
    I can sympathize with the attitude of their company as well, albeit small, self-employed. Nobody thinks that's good, but complaining does not help.
    I also see that potential workers are increasingly demanding to continue to qualify themselves and not to rely on the company to train them.

    Incidentally, this would really be an interesting article even for a larger medium to contrast the attitude of companies as well as applicants - if necessary, that would also be anonymous, because probably no one by name will speak so openly on this issue.

  52. Simone Janson

    Hello computer scientist,
    Thank you very much for this truly honest and partly self-critical report. Your statement is likely to be a problem many, just smaller companies - and that I as a self-employed: fluctuating order situation, no time to train employees with simultaneous lack of qualified people.
    Since in Germany the likes of the short-sightedness of the companies is threshed, which is partly justified. However, the entire economy is also moving in such a way that a long-term planning, as it was formerly used, is no longer possible.
    I can sympathize with the attitude of their company as well, albeit small, self-employed. Nobody thinks that's good, but complaining does not help.
    I also see that potential workers are increasingly demanding to continue to qualify themselves and not to rely on the company to train them.

    Incidentally, this would really be an interesting article even for a larger medium to contrast the attitude of companies as well as applicants - if necessary, that would also be anonymous, because probably no one by name will speak so openly on this issue.

  53. YOUNECT GmbH

    RT @SimoneJanson: #Insiderbericht So it is in companies really - interesting discussion contribution to the # shortage of skilled workers

  54. YOUNECT GmbH

    RT @SimoneJanson: #Insiderbericht So it is in companies really - interesting discussion contribution to the # shortage of skilled workers

  55. Simone Janson

    #Insiderbericht So it is in companies really - interesting discussion contribution to the # shortage of skilled workers

  56. Simone Janson

    #Insiderbericht So it is in companies really - interesting discussion contribution to the # shortage of skilled workers

  57. computer scientist

    Hallo,

    I am computer scientist, 40 years old and work as a software developer.

    We are looking for software developers in our company in the Rhine-Main area. But most of our applicants are also rejected.

    Applicants must have a practice experience in the programming languages ​​and operating systems we use and speak English very well. You should also have knowledge of the exchange environment.

    We are so under pressure that we can hardly get new people to work in and it is therefore not possible to hire beginners. However, we definitely set people through 50.

    I take part in job interviews and often it hangs also in the interpersonal communication. Some people we just can not imagine in our teams.

    If it turns out that a new employee does not bring the service, he will be dismissed without further ado.

    On the subject of quality of life, I can also say that with us is not a happy one who does the job just because of the money. Anyone who is not enthusiastic about software development will be very unhappy. The recognition of the performance often leaves something to be desired. You have to live with it.
    Management's complete requirements and deadlines are also met.

    I know some developers who have been able to inspire their job for a while and now want to do something different.

    With us the developers usually deserve very good. Top-level people get> 100K gross.

    I can understand the frustration of the applicants who do not find a job and now read in the newspaper of a professional jury. The companies (also ours) have failed to train people for years.

  58. computer scientist

    Hallo,

    I am computer scientist, 40 years old and work as a software developer.

    We are looking for software developers in our company in the Rhine-Main area. But most of our applicants are also rejected.

    Applicants must have a practice experience in the programming languages ​​and operating systems we use and speak English very well. You should also have knowledge of the exchange environment.

    We are so under pressure that we can hardly get new people to work in and it is therefore not possible to hire beginners. However, we definitely set people through 50.

    I take part in job interviews and often it hangs also in the interpersonal communication. Some people we just can not imagine in our teams.

    If it turns out that a new employee does not bring the service, he will be dismissed without further ado.

    On the subject of quality of life, I can also say that with us is not a happy one who does the job just because of the money. Anyone who is not enthusiastic about software development will be very unhappy. The recognition of the performance often leaves something to be desired. You have to live with it.
    Management's complete requirements and deadlines are also met.

    I know some developers who have been able to inspire their job for a while and now want to do something different.

    With us the developers usually deserve very good. Top-level people get> 100K gross.

    I can understand the frustration of the applicants who do not find a job and now read in the newspaper of a professional jury. The companies (also ours) have failed to train people for years.

  59. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thanks for the hints, that sounds very useful.
    But I also always need a specific contact person / interview partner, because the facts can be better conveyed, if one speaks directly also with those concerned. People are more interested in people. The article would then simply seem more authentic, at least my editors see this way.

    gruß
    Simone

    By the way: Here for a change a nice story about a young Japanese engineer:

  60. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thanks for the hints, that sounds very useful.
    But I also always need a specific contact person / interview partner, because the facts can be better conveyed, if one speaks directly also with those concerned. People are more interested in people. The article would then simply seem more authentic, at least my editors see this way.

    gruß
    Simone

    By the way: Here for a change a nice story about a young Japanese engineer:

  61. damaged

    Fortunately, I am not a victim but only noticed the methods in my application phase - and unfortunately I see them now from “inside”.

    To the question whether the enterprise is representative: in my private environment such jobs are represented over-proportionally. Despite above-average degrees.

    So what is the truth and how can we determine it? My tip would be:
    - Consider the age of the engineers (should be possible at the employment office). Premise: these people are generally NOT voluntarily but are deported.
    - Look at the rise and status of engineering time work and engineering services. The premise is that salary dumping is practiced there, or obviously these jobs no longer exist in companies and importantly, so there is no lasting shortage.
    - Finally find the true source of reports about engineering defects. Alternatively, find companies that are REALLY unsuccessful engineers looking for and analyzing why. How I find an interesting topic.

  62. damaged

    Fortunately, I am not a victim but only noticed the methods in my application phase - and unfortunately I see them now from “inside”.

    To the question whether the enterprise is representative: in my private environment such jobs are represented over-proportionally. Despite above-average degrees.

    So what is the truth and how can we determine it? My tip would be:
    - Consider the age of the engineers (should be possible at the employment office). Premise: these people are generally NOT voluntarily but are deported.
    - Look at the rise and status of engineering time work and engineering services. The premise is that salary dumping is practiced there, or obviously these jobs no longer exist in companies and importantly, so there is no lasting shortage.
    - Finally find the true source of reports about engineering defects. Alternatively, find companies that are REALLY unsuccessful engineers looking for and analyzing why. How I find an interesting topic.

  63. Simone Janson

    And here is a beautiful article exactly matching the subject:

  64. Simone Janson

    And here is a beautiful article exactly matching the subject:

  65. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Einstiegsgehalt for #Ingenieure in Frankfurt / Main too much? Discussed with:

  66. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Einstiegsgehalt for #Ingenieure in Frankfurt / Main too much? Discussed with:

  67. KEAL

    RT @SimoneJanson: Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

  68. KEAL

    RT @SimoneJanson: Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

  69. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

  70. Simone Janson

    Are 2500 € gross as #Incentage for #Ingenie too much? Discussed, I would look forward to more facts:

  71. damaged

    Yes Sorry, had posted this review before I saw her new article!

    If an engineer today could demand 2500 € net I would not write an angry post. The average GOOD entrance containers - according to IGM / ERA - are now available at ERA EG 12 -> ~ 3500 gross. Well, a top salary for a university graduate (although with us here often to the FH degree no difference is made depends, according to ERA eh only on the job description). This is not a bad salary, but also does not lure anyone into engineering studies. However, these wages are also often undercutted by companies as a result of temporary work and service providers.

    Hmm, if the 50+ year olds (mind you SO they have a job) are not doing well who then? Unfortunately - as mentioned elsewhere - I see how they are being retired. Often a good 7 years ahead of time. That means 7 years -x government subsidy in terms of pension contribution and income lost - the engineer quickly becomes an underclassist in terms of living expenses.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello victim,
      2500 € are not much - I know mathematicians who get more at the universities. But I'm also not quite sure if a company is really representative there.
      In any case, I would really like to take up the topic for a bigger medium - but the basic problem is that I need someone who reports his experiences under his real name.
      So I can only shortly times the facts of this discussion in a blog together.
      Simone Janson

  72. damaged

    Yes Sorry, had posted this review before I saw her new article!

    If an engineer today could demand 2500 € net I would not write an angry post. The average GOOD entrance containers - according to IGM / ERA - are now available at ERA EG 12 -> ~ 3500 gross. Well, a top salary for a university graduate (although with us here often to the FH degree no difference is made depends, according to ERA eh only on the job description). This is not a bad salary, but also does not lure anyone into engineering studies. However, these wages are also often undercutted by companies as a result of temporary work and service providers.

    Hmm, if the 50+ year olds (mind you SO they have a job) are not doing well who then? Unfortunately - as mentioned elsewhere - I see how they are being retired. Often a good 7 years ahead of time. That means 7 years -x government subsidy in terms of pension contribution and income lost - the engineer quickly becomes an underclassist in terms of living expenses.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello victim,
      2500 € are not much - I know mathematicians who get more at the universities. But I'm also not quite sure if a company is really representative there.
      In any case, I would really like to take up the topic for a bigger medium - but the basic problem is that I need someone who reports his experiences under his real name.
      So I can only shortly times the facts of this discussion in a blog together.
      Simone Janson

  73. damaged

    @Simone
    And your facts? Only the IW and the usual suspect companies see the STEM shortage. The numbers of temporary agency work and engineering service provider jobs with engineers? The REAL average salary of an engineer, companies that write rejections such as: “Due to your salary claim that cannot be met by us” - the exact amount was € 2500 / month, Frankfurt companies> 2500 employees. Companies that sell their actual Dismantling to employees in the usual news vehicles as “we are hiring: 3 engineers”? Please analyze the current complaints from Siemens, BMW and the aviation industry with their expertise in the need for replacement.

    According to the OECD, it looks like this in other countries: for every 100 “outgoing” engineers, 190 are entering the labor market. What should be positive about it? And in Germany - boohoo - there are only 90. In return, Germany is changing from the industrial to the service nation (Destatis, employees in the manufacturing sector 1970: 46,5%, today: 25,5%, falling). Rest in services largely WITHOUT engineering / engineering, finance, trade, etc.

    If the engineers have a golden future (supposedly they have had this for decades, so it has to be ready soon, “is already foreseeable”), I should be fine. I hope you are right!

    • Simone Janson

      Thank you for your detailed contributions here and.
      What I am really interested in their posting is the naming of an exact salary - 2.500 Euo gross or net? Would be important for proper classification. Incidentally, it is not my facts, but that of the Stifterverband for German science. How these could be achieved has already been discussed above. Also the situation of Ingenieruen 50 + has already been addressed - well, according to statements of other Kommatatoren do not.
      gruß
      Simone Janson

  74. damaged

    @Simone
    And your facts? Only the IW and the usual suspect companies see the STEM shortage. The numbers of temporary agency work and engineering service provider jobs with engineers? The REAL average salary of an engineer, companies that write rejections such as: “Due to your salary claim that cannot be met by us” - the exact amount was € 2500 / month, Frankfurt companies> 2500 employees. Companies that sell their actual Dismantling to employees in the usual news vehicles as “we are hiring: 3 engineers”? Please analyze the current complaints from Siemens, BMW and the aviation industry with their expertise in the need for replacement.

    According to the OECD, it looks like this in other countries: for every 100 “outgoing” engineers, 190 are entering the labor market. What should be positive about it? And in Germany - boohoo - there are only 90. In return, Germany is changing from the industrial to the service nation (Destatis, employees in the manufacturing sector 1970: 46,5%, today: 25,5%, falling). Rest in services largely WITHOUT engineering / engineering, finance, trade, etc.

    If the engineers have a golden future (supposedly they have had this for decades, so it has to be ready soon, “is already foreseeable”), I should be fine. I hope you are right!

    • Simone Janson

      Thank you for your detailed contributions here and.
      What I am really interested in their posting is the naming of an exact salary - 2.500 Euo gross or net? Would be important for proper classification. Incidentally, it is not my facts, but that of the Stifterverband for German science. How these could be achieved has already been discussed above. Also the situation of Ingenieruen 50 + has already been addressed - well, according to statements of other Kommatatoren do not.
      gruß
      Simone Janson

  75. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thank you for your contributions, which I find very entertaining thanks to your polemic and irony. But that does not deceive the fact that you only present your personal perspective without well-founded facts.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  76. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    Thank you for your contributions, which I find very entertaining thanks to your polemic and irony. But that does not deceive the fact that you only present your personal perspective without well-founded facts.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  77. damaged

    @Karen
    Of course not. Better to work as an engineer in temporary employment, for 2500 €. Today Hamburg, tomorrow Lake Constance. The main thing is to solder the right wires. If you do not need a life, a family, a luck, a money, a prosperity or a perspective you will become an engineer. For all others, there are other professions. Satisfaction without money and security also does not exist or only in the humanities ...

    And just by the way, in the past an engineer was simply paid for and used. Why not both? Why lure young people to work or even lie to study?

  78. damaged

    @Karen
    Of course not. Better to work as an engineer in temporary employment, for 2500 €. Today Hamburg, tomorrow Lake Constance. The main thing is to solder the right wires. If you do not need a life, a family, a luck, a money, a prosperity or a perspective you will become an engineer. For all others, there are other professions. Satisfaction without money and security also does not exist or only in the humanities ...

    And just by the way, in the past an engineer was simply paid for and used. Why not both? Why lure young people to work or even lie to study?

  79. Karen

    @ Injured:

    You can't just make your life dependent on money. Working all your life in a job that is not necessarily fulfilling and that was chosen only because of “high” earnings prospects is also not a solution. You should take up the job that suits you and then take up opportunities in another country. You cannot buy satisfaction.

  80. Karen

    @ Injured:

    You can't just make your life dependent on money. Working all your life in a job that is not necessarily fulfilling and that was chosen only because of “high” earnings prospects is also not a solution. You should take up the job that suits you and then take up opportunities in another country. You cannot buy satisfaction.

  81. damaged

    So please! There is NO lack of engineers. The demographic change is being eaten up by outsourcing jobs abroad. Temporary work is the future of the remaining engineers. If there is any future at all. At the same time, the engineers should work without pay for the first 5 years. And from the age of 50 please go voluntarily. I have never seen an engineer retire on a regular basis. And my ex-colleagues did not take the partial retirement voluntarily because they were so well looked after - but because it was suggested to them very very much ... if you have to go 5 years "too early", you should calculate how much the engineering profession against the bank clerk job. Financially not, it was just the "fun" to do the hardest job all your life on red-hot coals and NOT get any praise, recognition etc. - except from colleagues, who of course also know that the MINTler is oh so important in the world .

    By the way, my polemic is as good as that of interest groups, industrial lobby and that of haphazard politics. If I read the phrase again “it is already clear that there will be a shortage of skilled workers”, I will puke.

    People, make you a beautiful life (or have a life at all) and study what is g'scheites, but not MINT. Chinese and Indian are already doing this for us (O-tone of a high manager of an international group).

  82. damaged

    So please! There is NO lack of engineers. The demographic change is being eaten up by outsourcing jobs abroad. Temporary work is the future of the remaining engineers. If there is any future at all. At the same time, the engineers should work without pay for the first 5 years. And from the age of 50 please go voluntarily. I have never seen an engineer retire on a regular basis. And my ex-colleagues did not take the partial retirement voluntarily because they were so well looked after - but because it was suggested to them very very much ... if you have to go 5 years "too early", you should calculate how much the engineering profession against the bank clerk job. Financially not, it was just the "fun" to do the hardest job all your life on red-hot coals and NOT get any praise, recognition etc. - except from colleagues, who of course also know that the MINTler is oh so important in the world .

    By the way, my polemic is as good as that of interest groups, industrial lobby and that of haphazard politics. If I read the phrase again “it is already clear that there will be a shortage of skilled workers”, I will puke.

    People, make you a beautiful life (or have a life at all) and study what is g'scheites, but not MINT. Chinese and Indian are already doing this for us (O-tone of a high manager of an international group).

  83. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    In fact, I would like to forget the time of doubt and humiliation. In the short time in Sweden, I have received a lot of support, both from colleagues and from the company. In Germany, I was seen more as an intruder and as a threat to the position, assistance in the training was granted only conditionally. The colleagues were afraid for their own position and information was passed on only very limited. Although I am in Stockholm for a short time and it is certainly not paradise, but the support and respect that I have experienced here so far was missing in Germany. I feel good here, already after this short time.
    PS: I am reachable under the mail address.
    Regards

    Karen

  84. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    In fact, I would like to forget the time of doubt and humiliation. In the short time in Sweden, I have received a lot of support, both from colleagues and from the company. In Germany, I was seen more as an intruder and as a threat to the position, assistance in the training was granted only conditionally. The colleagues were afraid for their own position and information was passed on only very limited. Although I am in Stockholm for a short time and it is certainly not paradise, but the support and respect that I have experienced here so far was missing in Germany. I feel good here, already after this short time.
    PS: I am reachable under the mail address.
    Regards

    Karen

  85. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    many greetings from the cold Stockholm. There is a fairly large community of German engineers who support each other. With their help I have had a good start.
    Best regards and Happy Easter
    Karen

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Karen, I'm glad. As a consolation: Here it is also cold :-)
      One question: If necessary, would you be available for an interview if you wanted to do something about the topic (via e-mail or Skype)? And can I reach you at the given e-mail address?

      I also talked yesterday with a colleague at a larger newspaper, which also found the topic quite interesting. We are just busy with other things, so it can take a while.
      Greeting Simone Janson
      Simone Janson

  86. Karen

    Hello Simone,

    many greetings from the cold Stockholm. There is a fairly large community of German engineers who support each other. With their help I have had a good start.
    Best regards and Happy Easter
    Karen

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Karen, I'm glad. As a consolation: Here it is also cold :-)
      One question: If necessary, would you be available for an interview if you wanted to do something about the topic (via e-mail or Skype)? And can I reach you at the given e-mail address?

      I also talked yesterday with a colleague at a larger newspaper, which also found the topic quite interesting. We are just busy with other things, so it can take a while.
      Greeting Simone Janson
      Simone Janson

  87. Simone Janson

    Hello Christopher,
    A book on which topic? The security and defense sector? Since I know myself 0 - but gladly tips, if you want to write a book.
    On the other hand, there are umpteen books and websites about modern forms of work. One can, as already said, see this development negatively, but one can also recognize the new opportunities that lie therein.
    Greeting and happy Easter
    Simone

  88. Simone Janson

    Hello Christopher,
    A book on which topic? The security and defense sector? Since I know myself 0 - but gladly tips, if you want to write a book.
    On the other hand, there are umpteen books and websites about modern forms of work. One can, as already said, see this development negatively, but one can also recognize the new opportunities that lie therein.
    Greeting and happy Easter
    Simone

  89. Christoph

    Hello Simone,

    “@Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now on the homepage. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry internal. In which area are you active? ”

    I am glad that it impressed you:
    I am not working in the security and defense field. But since the latest technologies are used here, I watch the developments very closely for interest.
    My links were more than an answer to Monika's proposal to promote me in this area. I think it does not hurt to clarify what happens in the area. With a book on this subject you can certainly start a social debate.
    I recently visited a Fraunhofer Institute. There a criminal was pursued with the help of a quadrocopter. The chase was shown from the perspective of the camera in the quadrocopter. I must confess that I involuntarily had a very queasy feeling watching the hunt of a human being (the criminal was of course an extra). However, these devices are also intended for border patrol and are used in monitoring demonstrations, so the scenario may not be too far removed from reality.
    A fairly well-founded article on the subject can be found in the current “ct” No. 8 of March 29.3.2010, 82 on page XNUMX. So if you want to do a little research, go ahead.
    Incidentally, for reasons of conscience, it is forbidden for me to work in this area of ​​“skills shortage”.
    Otherwise: Did you read the article about the change in the world of work in the last mirror (with the “Modern Times title page by Charlie Chaplin”)? It describes how almost all professional groups are affected by unsecured employment. That might also help you for your research.

  90. Christoph

    Hello Simone,

    “@Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now on the homepage. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry internal. In which area are you active? ”

    I am glad that it impressed you:
    I am not working in the security and defense field. But since the latest technologies are used here, I watch the developments very closely for interest.
    My links were more than an answer to Monika's proposal to promote me in this area. I think it does not hurt to clarify what happens in the area. With a book on this subject you can certainly start a social debate.
    I recently visited a Fraunhofer Institute. There a criminal was pursued with the help of a quadrocopter. The chase was shown from the perspective of the camera in the quadrocopter. I must confess that I involuntarily had a very queasy feeling watching the hunt of a human being (the criminal was of course an extra). However, these devices are also intended for border patrol and are used in monitoring demonstrations, so the scenario may not be too far removed from reality.
    A fairly well-founded article on the subject can be found in the current “ct” No. 8 of March 29.3.2010, 82 on page XNUMX. So if you want to do a little research, go ahead.
    Incidentally, for reasons of conscience, it is forbidden for me to work in this area of ​​“skills shortage”.
    Otherwise: Did you read the article about the change in the world of work in the last mirror (with the “Modern Times title page by Charlie Chaplin”)? It describes how almost all professional groups are affected by unsecured employment. That might also help you for your research.

  91. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    and who can make a contact with the BMBF or make people aware of it? I'm honestly surprised that someone from the Bavarian Ministry of Economics is interested in a blog.

    Regarding the colored reports, I have to say: Unfortunately, the media do not like to report objectively. The title “Emigration - Germany is bleeding out” (only as an example) sells better than saying “There is a certain tendency for skilled workers to move abroad”. The slogan “help, shortage of skilled workers” is also more catchy and leads to more reactions than to say: “If we continue like this, we might miss a few people in 5 years”. One can get annoyed about it, unfortunately. It's about getting attention.

  92. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    and who can make a contact with the BMBF or make people aware of it? I'm honestly surprised that someone from the Bavarian Ministry of Economics is interested in a blog.

    Regarding the colored reports, I have to say: Unfortunately, the media do not like to report objectively. The title “Emigration - Germany is bleeding out” (only as an example) sells better than saying “There is a certain tendency for skilled workers to move abroad”. The slogan “help, shortage of skilled workers” is also more catchy and leads to more reactions than to say: “If we continue like this, we might miss a few people in 5 years”. One can get annoyed about it, unfortunately. It's about getting attention.

  93. Christoph

    @Simone:

    There are two views: the employer and the workers. If the media is talked about by experts, probably more young people would like to study a MINT profession in the expectation of a good merit and a safe place.

    It is already clear that the statements of the media are often formulated in a “travel-like” manner, but there is not only the picture newspaper but also “the time”.
    Leather is also an increasing tendency in politics and the media to talk more beautifully than it is. I like to compare this with the quantity units for a coke at McDonalds: there are only big, bigger and bigger. A small Coke is no more (at least not the name). It's an erosion of language, and the one who changes the terminology first is the winner. But only until you realize that today's cola is the little coke of yesteryear.
    And so it comes with the opinion of the citizens about the meaningfulness of the policy: once everyone has understood that everything is just talked beautifully, the trust goes massively into the cellar.

    So it may be for a MINT student who has been full of expectations about his future and then is disappointed by the reality and the promises.

  94. Christoph

    @Simone:

    There are two views: the employer and the workers. If the media is talked about by experts, probably more young people would like to study a MINT profession in the expectation of a good merit and a safe place.

    It is already clear that the statements of the media are often formulated in a “travel-like” manner, but there is not only the picture newspaper but also “the time”.
    Leather is also an increasing tendency in politics and the media to talk more beautifully than it is. I like to compare this with the quantity units for a coke at McDonalds: there are only big, bigger and bigger. A small Coke is no more (at least not the name). It's an erosion of language, and the one who changes the terminology first is the winner. But only until you realize that today's cola is the little coke of yesteryear.
    And so it comes with the opinion of the citizens about the meaningfulness of the policy: once everyone has understood that everything is just talked beautifully, the trust goes massively into the cellar.

    So it may be for a MINT student who has been full of expectations about his future and then is disappointed by the reality and the promises.

  95. Monika

    Hello Simone,

    In principle, anyone can turn to the BMBF and give suggestions, but to really attract attention or get something moving requires different means; For example, you could be successful in getting an MP interested in the topic; Writing a deputy has experience more weight than anyone writes .... You could hold a congress, with a panel discussion and responsible ministers, etc. to invite. One has to think very carefully about who to include when, otherwise one goes between the political fronts, and that then hurts the success of the project. If it then becomes clear in the talks that the alleged shortage of skilled workers is apparently only one side of the coin, the step to commission a study is already half won.

    • Simone Janson

      @Christoph - nice comparison with the Cola ...
      @ Monika: With which we would be back in the beginning: to organize a congress, to invite the right people, etc. costs money, requires good contacts, etc. Apart from the fact that one could take up the topic in the media in part, the concerned concerned probably nothing else to be founded as an association of interests which develops a little more punch than the individual.

  96. Monika

    Hello Simone,

    In principle, anyone can turn to the BMBF and give suggestions, but to really attract attention or get something moving requires different means; For example, you could be successful in getting an MP interested in the topic; Writing a deputy has experience more weight than anyone writes .... You could hold a congress, with a panel discussion and responsible ministers, etc. to invite. One has to think very carefully about who to include when, otherwise one goes between the political fronts, and that then hurts the success of the project. If it then becomes clear in the talks that the alleged shortage of skilled workers is apparently only one side of the coin, the step to commission a study is already half won.

    • Simone Janson

      @Christoph - nice comparison with the Cola ...
      @ Monika: With which we would be back in the beginning: to organize a congress, to invite the right people, etc. costs money, requires good contacts, etc. Apart from the fact that one could take up the topic in the media in part, the concerned concerned probably nothing else to be founded as an association of interests which develops a little more punch than the individual.

  97. Monika

    @Simone: On the question of who could commission a study: I ​​think the Federal Ministry of Education would be a good client, as this would ensure that a survey or research would not only refer to one federal state (which would be the case if a Bavarian ministry had one.) award such study). For example, in 2001 the BMBF commissioned a very extensive study on the subject of emigration. The results of the study were scientific, the interpretation later in the media was “colored”. I think a reputable company does not allow the results to be dictated by the client ...

  98. Monika

    @Simone: On the question of who could commission a study: I ​​think the Federal Ministry of Education would be a good client, as this would ensure that a survey or research would not only refer to one federal state (which would be the case if a Bavarian ministry had one.) award such study). For example, in 2001 the BMBF commissioned a very extensive study on the subject of emigration. The results of the study were scientific, the interpretation later in the media was “colored”. I think a reputable company does not allow the results to be dictated by the client ...

  99. Christoph

    “We must not forget that Karen has already drawn our attention to a more pro-worker study”

    and the result speaks quite clearly for a professional armed forces:

    “This does not automatically result in a shortage of specialists and managers. On the contrary, the number of demanding full-time positions, which the highly qualified are to wear more in the future, is paradoxically declining across industries. Furthermore, the overall German unemployment rate is not falling significantly and in reality is probably far higher than officially spent. There are quite a few voices behind the scenes that consider the said deficiency in the ITC industry to be a myth and an attempt at manipulation. "

  100. Christoph

    “We must not forget that Karen has already drawn our attention to a more pro-worker study”

    and the result speaks quite clearly for a professional armed forces:

    “This does not automatically result in a shortage of specialists and managers. On the contrary, the number of demanding full-time positions, which the highly qualified are to wear more in the future, is paradoxically declining across industries. Furthermore, the overall German unemployment rate is not falling significantly and in reality is probably far higher than officially spent. There are quite a few voices behind the scenes that consider the said deficiency in the ITC industry to be a myth and an attempt at manipulation. "

  101. Simone Janson

    Apart from the fact that the Internet is increasingly recognized as a place of publication in academic circles), professional publishing would be the least problem. You could, for example, get in touch with the authors and consider how to build on them.

    Nevertheless, you see, there are connecting points and numbers that are somewhat less tendentious.

  102. Simone Janson

    Apart from the fact that the Internet is increasingly recognized as a place of publication in academic circles), professional publishing would be the least problem. You could, for example, get in touch with the authors and consider how to build on them.

    Nevertheless, you see, there are connecting points and numbers that are somewhat less tendentious.

  103. Mark Brandis

    Certainly, this has, of course, been written by business informatics students and has not really been published professionally, if I am not mistaken?

  104. Mark Brandis

    Certainly, this has, of course, been written by business informatics students and has not really been published professionally, if I am not mistaken?

  105. Simone Janson

    Hallo,
    we must not forget that Karen has already drawn attention to a more pro-worker study:

  106. Simone Janson

    Hallo,
    we must not forget that Karen has already drawn attention to a more pro-worker study:

  107. Mark Brandis

    The problem with studies is that they always tend to reflect the opinion of the person who pays them. This is all right as long as one can filter out the truth about a certain situation from different studies of different lobbies.
    Unfortunately, the employee side can not commission a study on the subject of a shortage of skilled workers - and how? There is no organization that explicitly supports the interests of STEM graduates. So what is one reads and reads about 90% in the media on the subject of shortage of skilled workers, the representation of the employer side. And thus only a part of the truth, but by no means a complete copy of this.

  108. Mark Brandis

    The problem with studies is that they always tend to reflect the opinion of the person who pays them. This is all right as long as one can filter out the truth about a certain situation from different studies of different lobbies.
    Unfortunately, the employee side can not commission a study on the subject of a shortage of skilled workers - and how? There is no organization that explicitly supports the interests of STEM graduates. So what is one reads and reads about 90% in the media on the subject of shortage of skilled workers, the representation of the employer side. And thus only a part of the truth, but by no means a complete copy of this.

  109. Simone Janson

    Hi all,
    @ Sandra: Subsequently, congratulations on the job.
    @Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now right on the start page. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry interna. In which area are you active? Maybe something would be an issue ...
    As for the engineering service providers - nice euphemism. Actually, it is about lending or temporary work. As always there are two opinions. Interesting the aspect with the pony ... my personal opinion is also, sorry that maybe one or the other has to screw his claims down a bit ...

    Have also recently written an article in which a person concerned also reported rather positive about the subject:
    And then I'm still stumbled upon a new release in which somebody's very posing planning (@Michael) is, in my experience, a matter of personal attitude. After almost 7 years of self-employment, one is accustomed to certain uncertainties. My personal experience.

    @Monika: Who can then commission such a study? I do not believe the unemployment statistics are reliable, because the unemployed are not included in further training and people in precarious employment. But in fact, I also believe that in many other disciplines, it is still badly auitively reported that you have to rethink: http://www.meconomy.me/startpage?sessionId=e9qrf2k9bnd4lrkj2mqpvgdrh3
    Nevertheless, one should not gloss over this development. However, that with the Längerfristssieht - I said above, yes already.

    Greeting and nice evening yet
    Simone

  110. Simone Janson

    Hi all,
    @ Sandra: Subsequently, congratulations on the job.
    @Christoph: Thanks for the video - it is now right on the start page. Otherwise: Wow, thanks for the detailed industry interna. In which area are you active? Maybe something would be an issue ...
    As for the engineering service providers - nice euphemism. Actually, it is about lending or temporary work. As always there are two opinions. Interesting the aspect with the pony ... my personal opinion is also, sorry that maybe one or the other has to screw his claims down a bit ...

    Have also recently written an article in which a person concerned also reported rather positive about the subject:
    And then I'm still stumbled upon a new release in which somebody's very posing planning (@Michael) is, in my experience, a matter of personal attitude. After almost 7 years of self-employment, one is accustomed to certain uncertainties. My personal experience.

    @Monika: Who can then commission such a study? I do not believe the unemployment statistics are reliable, because the unemployed are not included in further training and people in precarious employment. But in fact, I also believe that in many other disciplines, it is still badly auitively reported that you have to rethink: http://www.meconomy.me/startpage?sessionId=e9qrf2k9bnd4lrkj2mqpvgdrh3
    Nevertheless, one should not gloss over this development. However, that with the Längerfristssieht - I said above, yes already.

    Greeting and nice evening yet
    Simone

  111. Christoph

    @Monika
    "Christoph, Indra is active in the security sector (among other things, they make the software for missile interception systems and security systems for monitoring the coast and the detection of smuggler boats - these were at least some of the showcase projects in the exhibition."

    Ok, from this point of view, it is clearer why not every position can be found on the homepage.

    There are actually some vacancies in the area you mentioned. At the moment there is a kind of "technical revolution" in this area.
    Several areas of technology have developed rapidly over the last few years, so that new possibilities for safety engineering have developed and skilled personnel are needed here.

    I would like to briefly pick out a few important areas and show the resulting possibilities:
    1. Image processing (eg http://www.face-rec.org/general-info/)
    2. Robotics ()
    3. Control technology for flying objects ()

    For the border protection, South Korea builds on the combination of 1. u. 2. a border protection robot.

    A hobbyist in the US has made a rather impressive video, in which he shows that this technology can also be realized with commercially available means such as computer and webcam:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc

    Foster and Miller have developed robots for use in crisis areas (). However, Iraq has shown that these are still unsuitable for practical use. Much more successfully used, however, unmanned aerial vehicles (,)

    Since Germany is the world's third largest arms exporter in terms of turnover, I also see great potential here for skilled workers in Germany. Precisely because in the weapons market the high-tech weapons a great future is predicted.

  112. Christoph

    @Monika
    "Christoph, Indra is active in the security sector (among other things, they make the software for missile interception systems and security systems for monitoring the coast and the detection of smuggler boats - these were at least some of the showcase projects in the exhibition."

    Ok, from this point of view, it is clearer why not every position can be found on the homepage.

    There are actually some vacancies in the area you mentioned. At the moment there is a kind of "technical revolution" in this area.
    Several areas of technology have developed rapidly over the last few years, so that new possibilities for safety engineering have developed and skilled personnel are needed here.

    I would like to briefly pick out a few important areas and show the resulting possibilities:
    1. Image processing (eg http://www.face-rec.org/general-info/)
    2. Robotics ()
    3. Control technology for flying objects ()

    For the border protection, South Korea builds on the combination of 1. u. 2. a border protection robot.

    A hobbyist in the US has made a rather impressive video, in which he shows that this technology can also be realized with commercially available means such as computer and webcam:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc

    Foster and Miller have developed robots for use in crisis areas (). However, Iraq has shown that these are still unsuitable for practical use. Much more successfully used, however, unmanned aerial vehicles (,)

    Since Germany is the world's third largest arms exporter in terms of turnover, I also see great potential here for skilled workers in Germany. Precisely because in the weapons market the high-tech weapons a great future is predicted.

  113. Michael

    The film is very interesting and hits the situation exactly. I belong to a group of 4 engineers (TU, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering)), who have been working for a Bavarian automotive manufacturer in development over an engineering service provider for about 3 years. Unfortunately, the hoped-for acquisition did not come true for anyone. The work contracts were regularly extended just a few months before expiration. A longer-term planning is unfortunately not possible for any of us. In the event of a takeover, the group would probably have to pay considerably more (salaries range between EUR 2148, - to 2978, - gross plur 1,80 EUR travel allowance per day). Each of us is trying to change but is currently difficult, especially with the testimony of a service provider.

  114. Michael

    The film is very interesting and hits the situation exactly. I belong to a group of 4 engineers (TU, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering)), who have been working for a Bavarian automotive manufacturer in development over an engineering service provider for about 3 years. Unfortunately, the hoped-for acquisition did not come true for anyone. The work contracts were regularly extended just a few months before expiration. A longer-term planning is unfortunately not possible for any of us. In the event of a takeover, the group would probably have to pay considerably more (salaries range between EUR 2148, - to 2978, - gross plur 1,80 EUR travel allowance per day). Each of us is trying to change but is currently difficult, especially with the testimony of a service provider.

  115. Christoph

    @Simone
    “Thanks for the closer research. But I would not rate missing job advertisements on the company website for not looking for skilled workers. ”

    I may be misinterpreting the term “skilled worker sting”. I assumed that if there is a deficiency somewhere, the company concerned will do everything possible to remedy the deficiency. So possibly also keep job advertisements on the homepage up to date.

    Likewise, someone who has not yet dealt so intensively with the issue of professional deficit suspects that if a company has found a specialist, they also tried to adjust it as quickly as possible.
    This idea is somewhat naive is shown by the contribution of ZDF:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIV-P6K2t4M

  116. Christoph

    @Simone
    “Thanks for the closer research. But I would not rate missing job advertisements on the company website for not looking for skilled workers. ”

    I may be misinterpreting the term “skilled worker sting”. I assumed that if there is a deficiency somewhere, the company concerned will do everything possible to remedy the deficiency. So possibly also keep job advertisements on the homepage up to date.

    Likewise, someone who has not yet dealt so intensively with the issue of professional deficit suspects that if a company has found a specialist, they also tried to adjust it as quickly as possible.
    This idea is somewhat naive is shown by the contribution of ZDF:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIV-P6K2t4M

  117. Monika

    Hello Simone, Ralf and Christoph,

    I work in the Bavarian Ministry of Economic Affairs and pursue the topic of brain drain and a shortage of skilled labor intensively. Looking at the unemployment statistics, it still seems that graduates of MINT subjects are less likely to be unemployed than graduates of other disciplines.
    In terms of “opening your eyes”, you can only argue convincingly in my area if you can provide verifiable figures. Perhaps it would be a good idea to commission a current study on the professional situation / job prospects of MINT graduates.
    Christoph, Indra is involved in the security sector (including making rocket interceptor software and security systems for coast monitoring and smuggler boat detection - at least some of the flagship projects in the exhibition paperless hospital and the electronic medical record). The security was adequate, I could imagine that's the reason why you can not find job offers on the net. As mentioned, the R & D boss personally has reported that the company is constantly looking for good people.

    A nice Saturday in the round,

    Monika

  118. Monika

    Hello Simone, Ralf and Christoph,

    I work in the Bavarian Ministry of Economic Affairs and pursue the topic of brain drain and a shortage of skilled labor intensively. Looking at the unemployment statistics, it still seems that graduates of MINT subjects are less likely to be unemployed than graduates of other disciplines.
    In terms of “opening your eyes”, you can only argue convincingly in my area if you can provide verifiable figures. Perhaps it would be a good idea to commission a current study on the professional situation / job prospects of MINT graduates.
    Christoph, Indra is involved in the security sector (including making rocket interceptor software and security systems for coast monitoring and smuggler boat detection - at least some of the flagship projects in the exhibition paperless hospital and the electronic medical record). The security was adequate, I could imagine that's the reason why you can not find job offers on the net. As mentioned, the R & D boss personally has reported that the company is constantly looking for good people.

    A nice Saturday in the round,

    Monika

  119. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    thank you for the praise for the blog and your offer. I gladly forward your e-mail address on request (it does not appear publicly).
    Ralf, thanks for the info. I'm going to pass the topic, but it takes a while, as I said.
    Christoph: Thanks for the closer research. I would however not not missing job vacancies on the company site for that not yet skilled workers are sought. Not every company has its own career side, some are looking for new employees in job exchanges, etc.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  120. Simone Janson

    Hi monika,
    thank you for the praise for the blog and your offer. I gladly forward your e-mail address on request (it does not appear publicly).
    Ralf, thanks for the info. I'm going to pass the topic, but it takes a while, as I said.
    Christoph: Thanks for the closer research. I would however not not missing job vacancies on the company site for that not yet skilled workers are sought. Not every company has its own career side, some are looking for new employees in job exchanges, etc.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  121. Christoph

    Buenos dias, Monika. A mi me gusta Espania.

    Thank you for wanting to help us. I am supplied for my part. However, I have enough industry experience to know how the bunny runs. The company seems to settle in the field of consulting, so clearly what the company does, but it has not become me.

    > There, the head of R & D reported that the company's biggest problem was> finding well-trained professionals.

    It does not seem to be necessary to have specialists, however, if there are no vacancies on the website under Job-Offers.
    Or perhaps you are still looking for a specialist who can wait the website ...

  122. Christoph

    Buenos dias, Monika. A mi me gusta Espania.

    Thank you for wanting to help us. I am supplied for my part. However, I have enough industry experience to know how the bunny runs. The company seems to settle in the field of consulting, so clearly what the company does, but it has not become me.

    > There, the head of R & D reported that the company's biggest problem was> finding well-trained professionals.

    It does not seem to be necessary to have specialists, however, if there are no vacancies on the website under Job-Offers.
    Or perhaps you are still looking for a specialist who can wait the website ...

  123. Ralf

    @Monika

    Nice that the articles about the actual situation of the Ings have opened your eyes. The public must finally find out what is going on and how it really is about the “shortage of skilled workers”.
    Would it be possible if you could tell us how far you have to deal with the subject of "skills shortage"?

    In this forum you will find a lot of articles about the labor market situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/forum/ausbildung-studium-beruf
    Partially there is a lot of pessimism among them, but this is not a coincidence.

    In the resulting is this intimate community:

  124. Ralf

    @Monika

    Nice that the articles about the actual situation of the Ings have opened your eyes. The public must finally find out what is going on and how it really is about the “shortage of skilled workers”.
    Would it be possible if you could tell us how far you have to deal with the subject of "skills shortage"?

    In this forum you will find a lot of articles about the labor market situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/forum/ausbildung-studium-beruf
    Partially there is a lot of pessimism among them, but this is not a coincidence.

    In the resulting is this intimate community:

  125. Monika

    Hi all,

    I find this blog very interesting here. I am professionally concerned with the subject and, before I came across this page, I emanated from the specialist defendant. I see that now more critically. Thanks so for all posts.
    I was in Madrid before 2 weeks and visited the company indra (www.indra.es). There the head of R & D reported that the company's biggest problem was to find well-trained specialists. On demand, I learned that they are looking for computer scientists and engineers. Indra is an international company, headquartered in Madrid, but has branches all over the world. The company language is English. Perhaps that would be something for Christoph and his computer scientists from the blog above?
    I'll keep my fingers crossed. Get in touch if you want the name of the R & D boss.
    Regards

    Monika

  126. Monika

    Hi all,

    I find this blog very interesting here. I am professionally concerned with the subject and, before I came across this page, I emanated from the specialist defendant. I see that now more critically. Thanks so for all posts.
    I was in Madrid before 2 weeks and visited the company indra (www.indra.es). There the head of R & D reported that the company's biggest problem was to find well-trained specialists. On demand, I learned that they are looking for computer scientists and engineers. Indra is an international company, headquartered in Madrid, but has branches all over the world. The company language is English. Perhaps that would be something for Christoph and his computer scientists from the blog above?
    I'll keep my fingers crossed. Get in touch if you want the name of the R & D boss.
    Regards

    Monika

  127. sandra

    Hello, I am very happy that I did not apply to engineering service providers (in retrospect). This morning I had a job interview with the company (subsidiary of one of the major steel companies) where I did my internship. Again an unsolicited application, but was worth it. They are interested in me and want to hire me. The job would even be permanent and abroad I do not have: D.

    Greetings Sandra

  128. sandra

    Hello, I am very happy that I did not apply to engineering service providers (in retrospect). This morning I had a job interview with the company (subsidiary of one of the major steel companies) where I did my internship. Again an unsolicited application, but was worth it. They are interested in me and want to hire me. The job would even be permanent and abroad I do not have: D.

    Greetings Sandra

  129. Norbert

    Also to be taken into account are the many personnel hires, ie “slave traders”, who don't stop at engineers either. The job exchanges are full of parasites.

  130. Norbert

    Also to be taken into account are the many personnel hires, ie “slave traders”, who don't stop at engineers either. The job exchanges are full of parasites.

  131. Simone Janson

    Also an interesting aspect! Thank you!

  132. Simone Janson

    Also an interesting aspect! Thank you!

  133. Christoph

    Here, there is a contribution from someone who leads the perceived specialist deficit of the economy to too high demands of the companies:

    However, I have to say that the article is too biased, since it is not mentioned that the companies are also under competitive pressure and therefore need fast-use specialists.

  134. Christoph

    Here, there is a contribution from someone who leads the perceived specialist deficit of the economy to too high demands of the companies:

    However, I have to say that the article is too biased, since it is not mentioned that the companies are also under competitive pressure and therefore need fast-use specialists.

  135. Roland

    Hello Sabine ;)

    To prepare. Please write something about this initiative here:

    http://www.ig-ing.de/aktuell.htm

    The boys try to work up the topic a bit and to show the perspective of the "affected".
    The surveys there are also very interesting, although I am honestly still positively amazed at the actual amount of salaries in these surveys. Most people I know deserve far less.

    MfG, R.

  136. Roland

    Hello Sabine ;)

    To prepare. Please write something about this initiative here:

    http://www.ig-ing.de/aktuell.htm

    The boys try to work up the topic a bit and to show the perspective of the "affected".
    The surveys there are also very interesting, although I am honestly still positively amazed at the actual amount of salaries in these surveys. Most people I know deserve far less.

    MfG, R.

  137. Norbert

    Quote: "This could be a way for the future: hiring graduates with a kind of intern salary for the first 3 years until they then become specialists." Quote end

    Uh, is it still?

    After graduating, a graduate should still work 3 years for a small salary as an intern !? Do you honestly believe that someone else is willing to undertake an engineering degree? On average, 4 years of studying without a fixed income and then again 3 years as an intern working for low income.
    And after the 3 years as a trainee comes a new (s) product / technology into which one can again work as an intern?

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Norbert,
      that would be a bit of my fear ... as I said: That's exactly how it works in the media ...
      If, however, nobody would be more interested in studying engineering, our problem would be solved here, would not it? :-)

  138. Norbert

    Quote: "This could be a way for the future: hiring graduates with a kind of intern salary for the first 3 years until they then become specialists." Quote end

    Uh, is it still?

    After graduating, a graduate should still work 3 years for a small salary as an intern !? Do you honestly believe that someone else is willing to undertake an engineering degree? On average, 4 years of studying without a fixed income and then again 3 years as an intern working for low income.
    And after the 3 years as a trainee comes a new (s) product / technology into which one can again work as an intern?

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Norbert,
      that would be a bit of my fear ... as I said: That's exactly how it works in the media ...
      If, however, nobody would be more interested in studying engineering, our problem would be solved here, would not it? :-)

  139. Christoph

    > What does that say about Christoph? :-)
    Revision ;-)

    “Ok, back to the topic: Isn't there a risk that the companies will throw out the expensive full-time staff after 3 years and only ever hire young students? Because that's what is happening in the media industry ... so I'm skeptical ... ”

    From my experience this does not apply in the same way in the MINT professions. In order to be able to work productively in a technical subject area, it takes a rather long time to work in. Let's assume a graduate is to optimize the injection nozzle of an 4 stroke engine. He does not learn this at a university in any depth. At university, he learns at most how an 4 stroke motor works. The knowledge for optimizing the injection nozzle is usually special and secret knowledge of the company. For this reason the changers are so valuable.

  140. Christoph

    > What does that say about Christoph? :-)
    Revision ;-)

    “Ok, back to the topic: Isn't there a risk that the companies will throw out the expensive full-time staff after 3 years and only ever hire young students? Because that's what is happening in the media industry ... so I'm skeptical ... ”

    From my experience this does not apply in the same way in the MINT professions. In order to be able to work productively in a technical subject area, it takes a rather long time to work in. Let's assume a graduate is to optimize the injection nozzle of an 4 stroke engine. He does not learn this at a university in any depth. At university, he learns at most how an 4 stroke motor works. The knowledge for optimizing the injection nozzle is usually special and secret knowledge of the company. For this reason the changers are so valuable.

  141. Simone Janson

    My grandma has always called me Sabine .... but she was about 70 and constantly confused me with my cousin ... what does that say about Christoph? :-)
    OK, back to the topic: Is not there then the danger that the companies throw out the expensive Voll-forces after 3 years and only hire young students? That's what's happening in the media industry right now ... so I'm skeptical ...

  142. Simone Janson

    My grandma has always called me Sabine .... but she was about 70 and constantly confused me with my cousin ... what does that say about Christoph? :-)
    OK, back to the topic: Is not there then the danger that the companies throw out the expensive Voll-forces after 3 years and only hire young students? That's what's happening in the media industry right now ... so I'm skeptical ...

  143. Christoph

    > Businesses should also have an advantage (eg better image) of training a student.

    For a larger German company, there was a program to integrate young graduates during an economic crisis. These were adjusted with a low hourly rate and low content.
    Perhaps this would be a way for the future: graduates to adjust the first 3 years with a kind of internship salary until you become skilled workers.
    Where I just notice: It is here about professional defenses. In industry, graduates per se are not skilled workers. It is only with 3-4 years of professional experience that one speaks of a specialist.

  144. Christoph

    > Businesses should also have an advantage (eg better image) of training a student.

    For a larger German company, there was a program to integrate young graduates during an economic crisis. These were adjusted with a low hourly rate and low content.
    Perhaps this would be a way for the future: graduates to adjust the first 3 years with a kind of internship salary until you become skilled workers.
    Where I just notice: It is here about professional defenses. In industry, graduates per se are not skilled workers. It is only with 3-4 years of professional experience that one speaks of a specialist.

  145. Christoph

    > PS: Who is Sabine?

    Uhh, sorry, Simone, you meant :-)

  146. Christoph

    > PS: Who is Sabine?

    Uhh, sorry, Simone, you meant :-)

  147. Simone Janson

    Hello Christopher,
    thank you again for the comprehensive analysis of the situation.
    As you say, it is likely that every entrepreneur would do exactly the same to lose his competitive advantage. As a result, good persuasion does not matter: companies must also have an advantage (eg better image) to train a student.

    I find it very interesting, as I said, I just have to think about how to prepare the topic.

    gruß
    Simone

    PS: Who is Sabine?

  148. Simone Janson

    Hello Christopher,
    thank you again for the comprehensive analysis of the situation.
    As you say, it is likely that every entrepreneur would do exactly the same to lose his competitive advantage. As a result, good persuasion does not matter: companies must also have an advantage (eg better image) to train a student.

    I find it very interesting, as I said, I just have to think about how to prepare the topic.

    gruß
    Simone

    PS: Who is Sabine?

  149. Christoph

    The skilled workers solution from the Süddeutschen should collide in particular with the interests of the writer of this post from http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445:

    Author: experienced computer scientist (guest)
    Date: 02.12.2009 08: 41

    Hallo,
    we are a group of computer scientists from the area of ​​Cisco networks.
    We were at a large IT and electronics company (Munich)
    hired. All about the 40 and with about 10 - 12 years of experience. We
    were dismissed for operational reasons (no longer fit in
    Salary and age profile). The search for a new job remained
    unsuccessful in the past. Anbebote from the employment office (porter and
    Warehousing) are not very appealing. The
    German industry is a malicious fairy tale. We can only be urgent
    from a MINT study advise. The industry only sees us as
    Consumables, which are discarded after some time.

  150. Christoph

    The skilled workers solution from the Süddeutschen should collide in particular with the interests of the writer of this post from http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445:

    Author: experienced computer scientist (guest)
    Date: 02.12.2009 08: 41

    Hallo,
    we are a group of computer scientists from the area of ​​Cisco networks.
    We were at a large IT and electronics company (Munich)
    hired. All about the 40 and with about 10 - 12 years of experience. We
    were dismissed for operational reasons (no longer fit in
    Salary and age profile). The search for a new job remained
    unsuccessful in the past. Anbebote from the employment office (porter and
    Warehousing) are not very appealing. The
    German industry is a malicious fairy tale. We can only be urgent
    from a MINT study advise. The industry only sees us as
    Consumables, which are discarded after some time.

  151. Christoph

    Hello Sabine,

    You are right, it makes little sense to argue about the different chances of the professional groups. I know how difficult it is in the humanities. An acquaintance of mine works 12 hours and stumbles from one internship to another, because it is held by the employers.
    In this thread, it is indeed the question of the media deficit specialist deficit.

    I once again thought a little more about the job offer quoted above:

    Request from the 5.3.2010 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613)

    "We have been looking for HMI SW developers in the area for some time now
    embedded area. Somehow the market seems at this point
    to be empty. The salary can not be because there is simply no
    find suitable candidates. We are looking for MA with 3-4 years BE since the topic
    for graduates is probably too complex. "
    "- maximum age 45-50"
    Students with no professional experience are excluded as well as specialists from 51 years.
    From the company's point of view, this is understandable: someone is needed who can work productively immediately because the project is likely to be under deadline pressure.
    What is interesting is that if you are a specialist with 3 years of professional experience in the desired field, you must have gained this professional experience at another company.
    There are therefore two options to fill the position: Either the specialist changes of his own free will, or it must be recruited from the other company. In both cases, there is a gap in the old company. If the old company is now looking for a specialist with the same qualifications, she has the same problem. She then has two options: Either the specialist changes of his own free will, or she must be wooed by the other company, etc ....
    The game is repeated and therefore the skill deficit is never to be eliminated unless a company in the chain is ready to hire a new student and study it in 3-4 years. This training phase costs the company money, of course, and it loses a competitive advantage over a company that has already been able to hire a skilled craftsman.
    For the company, which has published the position for the skilled tradesman, the mechanism described above always looks as if there were no specialists.
    There is also a further possibility for the companies to come to skilled skilled workers:
    However, the unemployed MINT specialists and the young engineers would be able to bring this method without a spot to white heat.

  152. Christoph

    Hello Sabine,

    You are right, it makes little sense to argue about the different chances of the professional groups. I know how difficult it is in the humanities. An acquaintance of mine works 12 hours and stumbles from one internship to another, because it is held by the employers.
    In this thread, it is indeed the question of the media deficit specialist deficit.

    I once again thought a little more about the job offer quoted above:

    Request from the 5.3.2010 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613)

    "We have been looking for HMI SW developers in the area for some time now
    embedded area. Somehow the market seems at this point
    to be empty. The salary can not be because there is simply no
    find suitable candidates. We are looking for MA with 3-4 years BE since the topic
    for graduates is probably too complex. "
    "- maximum age 45-50"
    Students with no professional experience are excluded as well as specialists from 51 years.
    From the company's point of view, this is understandable: someone is needed who can work productively immediately because the project is likely to be under deadline pressure.
    What is interesting is that if you are a specialist with 3 years of professional experience in the desired field, you must have gained this professional experience at another company.
    There are therefore two options to fill the position: Either the specialist changes of his own free will, or it must be recruited from the other company. In both cases, there is a gap in the old company. If the old company is now looking for a specialist with the same qualifications, she has the same problem. She then has two options: Either the specialist changes of his own free will, or she must be wooed by the other company, etc ....
    The game is repeated and therefore the skill deficit is never to be eliminated unless a company in the chain is ready to hire a new student and study it in 3-4 years. This training phase costs the company money, of course, and it loses a competitive advantage over a company that has already been able to hire a skilled craftsman.
    For the company, which has published the position for the skilled tradesman, the mechanism described above always looks as if there were no specialists.
    There is also a further possibility for the companies to come to skilled skilled workers:
    However, the unemployed MINT specialists and the young engineers would be able to bring this method without a spot to white heat.

  153. Simone Janson

    @ Christoph: Now I get that only with the edit - sometimes I'm really out of the hose ... you can send me an edited version of your texts by e-mail, which I then replace .. sorry ..

    @ Roland: But I do not think that brings us a fundamental discussion on the social conditions in Germany ... there are a lot of professional groups who could sing the same lament, as a mainstay in society to be paid too badly.
    The question is, and each group has to answer for itself, is what you can change.

  154. Simone Janson

    @ Christoph: Now I get that only with the edit - sometimes I'm really out of the hose ... you can send me an edited version of your texts by e-mail, which I then replace .. sorry ..

    @ Roland: But I do not think that brings us a fundamental discussion on the social conditions in Germany ... there are a lot of professional groups who could sing the same lament, as a mainstay in society to be paid too badly.
    The question is, and each group has to answer for itself, is what you can change.

  155. Roland

    Pieeep :-) I look similar.
    If I were one of the leaders in this country,
    then I would drive the same strategy.
    People and technology is the only resource we can manage here in our small overpopulated country.
    And we can not have enough of that.
    Too bad only for the “victims”, who are probably often lured by the boom from above to a path that is good for the country but bad for personal development :-(

    Perhaps prosperity is also poorly distributed in Germany,
    otherwise some engineers would earn more for the vital role they play in society and the situation would be more satisfying. The Ings / Technicians / Infs / Researchers are virtually the pillars on which German prosperity rests because they generate materially usable innovation.

  156. Roland

    Pieeep :-) I look similar.
    If I were one of the leaders in this country,
    then I would drive the same strategy.
    People and technology is the only resource we can manage here in our small overpopulated country.
    And we can not have enough of that.
    Too bad only for the “victims”, who are probably often lured by the boom from above to a path that is good for the country but bad for personal development :-(

    Perhaps prosperity is also poorly distributed in Germany,
    otherwise some engineers would earn more for the vital role they play in society and the situation would be more satisfying. The Ings / Technicians / Infs / Researchers are virtually the pillars on which German prosperity rests because they generate materially usable innovation.

  157. Christoph

    Too bad that I can not edit the text, linguistically there are some errors in it ....

  158. Christoph

    Too bad that I can not edit the text, linguistically there are some errors in it ....

  159. Christoph

    > But I find it a little difficult to believe in a targeted "conspiracy" by the Federal Agency for Work and Enterprise.

    To believe in a conspiracy theory would be similarly naive as the view of some people, the automobile industry would intentionally build cars that only hold 10 years so they can sell more cars.

    The contradiction between the media spread MINT lack and the actual situation situation can be explained as a kind "mechanism" completely without malicious conspiracy.

    It is generally acknowledged that the future prosperity in a country like Germany (low raw material, demography problems, globalization pressure) depends on the education of its own population.
    The largest share of the export surplus, which determines the prosperity of our country now and in the next decades, is generated by MINT-heavy occupational fields. It is therefore urgently required by the policy to provide for young talent in these areas. Of course, the industry also worries about a shortage of future employees and will advise the policy accordingly.

    And this is where the problem arises: The industry must definitely avoid having a shortage of young talent, because this has direct consequences on profit development and competitiveness. However, it does not hurt the industry if a few percent of applicants bid too much: on the contrary, if there are more candidates than are needed, you can choose the best and negotiate the price.

    Precisely for this reason, in the VDI news (at least the last 3 decades) was always written by a shortage of skilled workers, regardless of the actual labor market situation.

    The "mechanism" is thus: too few young people are absolutely harmful for the competitiveness, just as many young people as required only in pain to accept, too many applicants is super!

    For the prosperity of the company are "too many" junior staff of advantage, for the surplus specialists find no job it is a disadvantage.

    • Simone Janson

      Thank you Christoph for the profound analysis of the situation ... Well, linguistic errors - which unfortunately occur more quickly than one can say Pip ...

  160. Christoph

    > But I find it a little difficult to believe in a targeted "conspiracy" by the Federal Agency for Work and Enterprise.

    To believe in a conspiracy theory would be similarly naive as the view of some people, the automobile industry would intentionally build cars that only hold 10 years so they can sell more cars.

    The contradiction between the media spread MINT lack and the actual situation situation can be explained as a kind "mechanism" completely without malicious conspiracy.

    It is generally acknowledged that the future prosperity in a country like Germany (low raw material, demography problems, globalization pressure) depends on the education of its own population.
    The largest share of the export surplus, which determines the prosperity of our country now and in the next decades, is generated by MINT-heavy occupational fields. It is therefore urgently required by the policy to provide for young talent in these areas. Of course, the industry also worries about a shortage of future employees and will advise the policy accordingly.

    And this is where the problem arises: The industry must definitely avoid having a shortage of young talent, because this has direct consequences on profit development and competitiveness. However, it does not hurt the industry if a few percent of applicants bid too much: on the contrary, if there are more candidates than are needed, you can choose the best and negotiate the price.

    Precisely for this reason, in the VDI news (at least the last 3 decades) was always written by a shortage of skilled workers, regardless of the actual labor market situation.

    The "mechanism" is thus: too few young people are absolutely harmful for the competitiveness, just as many young people as required only in pain to accept, too many applicants is super!

    For the prosperity of the company are "too many" junior staff of advantage, for the surplus specialists find no job it is a disadvantage.

    • Simone Janson

      Thank you Christoph for the profound analysis of the situation ... Well, linguistic errors - which unfortunately occur more quickly than one can say Pip ...

  161. Roland

    > But what interests me: Why do you think that in old age and for
    > Women in other areas is easier? I would not be convinced ...

    Let's say this: long-term observation. MINT is not studied for a high phase but as a profession for a whole life.
    My father is now ~ 20 years at Siemens (but still got a good salary in good times) and my mother is almost unemployed as an engineer since ~ 20 years, has now learned.
    I just see how hard it is and what jumps out of it.
    Most engineers land at a fairly average level in old age. Most business people, civil servants, bankers, medical professionals, which I know are more likely to belong to the upper class. I know a lot of older engineers that the market simply does not accept anymore, which ones then
    financially, or away from their industry.
    That is for example. with doctors or teachers only very rarely the case.

    If I look at the biographies of women who have learned a “female job”, they are mostly more successful in the long term than women in male jobs. Eg most doctors and civil servants are still doing very well in old age.

    The engineering profession is therefore a more difficult one because one has to develop further for life and always have to maintain the competitiveness of younger colleagues. Only a fraction of the engineers in industrial companies eventually landed in a leadership position most of the others somewhere in the normal hierarchy. Age is also seen as a stumbling block in the relatively high stress situation in industrial enterprises. An economist is needed
    eg. not with 57 years like my dad getting into a completely new programming language.

    The risk in the industry is simply enormous, it starts with the high diarrheal rates in the university (from ~ 50%) then goes to the distribution of the jobs where only the best have good chances further. Later, the risk of unemployment increases enormously with age. To this end, working life today requires a high degree of local flexibility, especially in the technical field, because
    it does not provide qualified jobs for engineers at every corner.
    The labor market for engineers is also subject to large fluctuations, which are closely linked to the order situation of the industry. In short: an unpredictable risk is taken with the decision for the engineering sciences.
    The return on this is unfortunately often lousy nowadays. You can have it much easier with another profession.

    Personally, I can only recommend the profession to people who can not imagine anything other than technology and willing to make sacrifices.

    Everything may sound very negative now, but I wanted to draw a contrast to the “engineers looking for a hand - insane professional prospects” group, you have to know what you are getting into if you are a “modern worker” without a large lobby with the unfortunately in lately shaky German industry is planning his life.

  162. Roland

    > But what interests me: Why do you think that in old age and for
    > Women in other areas is easier? I would not be convinced ...

    Let's say this: long-term observation. MINT is not studied for a high phase but as a profession for a whole life.
    My father is now ~ 20 years at Siemens (but still got a good salary in good times) and my mother is almost unemployed as an engineer since ~ 20 years, has now learned.
    I just see how hard it is and what jumps out of it.
    Most engineers land at a fairly average level in old age. Most business people, civil servants, bankers, medical professionals, which I know are more likely to belong to the upper class. I know a lot of older engineers that the market simply does not accept anymore, which ones then
    financially, or away from their industry.
    That is for example. with doctors or teachers only very rarely the case.

    If I look at the biographies of women who have learned a “female job”, they are mostly more successful in the long term than women in male jobs. Eg most doctors and civil servants are still doing very well in old age.

    The engineering profession is therefore a more difficult one because one has to develop further for life and always have to maintain the competitiveness of younger colleagues. Only a fraction of the engineers in industrial companies eventually landed in a leadership position most of the others somewhere in the normal hierarchy. Age is also seen as a stumbling block in the relatively high stress situation in industrial enterprises. An economist is needed
    eg. not with 57 years like my dad getting into a completely new programming language.

    The risk in the industry is simply enormous, it starts with the high diarrheal rates in the university (from ~ 50%) then goes to the distribution of the jobs where only the best have good chances further. Later, the risk of unemployment increases enormously with age. To this end, working life today requires a high degree of local flexibility, especially in the technical field, because
    it does not provide qualified jobs for engineers at every corner.
    The labor market for engineers is also subject to large fluctuations, which are closely linked to the order situation of the industry. In short: an unpredictable risk is taken with the decision for the engineering sciences.
    The return on this is unfortunately often lousy nowadays. You can have it much easier with another profession.

    Personally, I can only recommend the profession to people who can not imagine anything other than technology and willing to make sacrifices.

    Everything may sound very negative now, but I wanted to draw a contrast to the “engineers looking for a hand - insane professional prospects” group, you have to know what you are getting into if you are a “modern worker” without a large lobby with the unfortunately in lately shaky German industry is planning his life.

  163. Simone Janson

    @ Roland: That's what I meant too. Ignorance of the situation. Good that there are blogs and such threads. Thanks for the praise to the blog - now the advertisers only have to see it that way :-). But what interests me is why do you think that it is easier in old age and for women in other areas? I would not be convinced ...

    @Christoph: “In the anonymity of many forum posts, one or the other overshoots the mark.” Thank you for the confirmation. Of course, the companies assume that you have acquired the knowledge either during your studies or privately :-) It's hard to find now - but as I said, as a self-employed person, it is completely normal for you to invest first, even in your own training ... on I have collected some examples of people who have entered IT and are telling how they did it.

    @ Ralf. Thanks for pointing out ... that was the other way around with the Humanities scholars: they just have even bigger problems finding a job ...

  164. Simone Janson

    @ Roland: That's what I meant too. Ignorance of the situation. Good that there are blogs and such threads. Thanks for the praise to the blog - now the advertisers only have to see it that way :-). But what interests me is why do you think that it is easier in old age and for women in other areas? I would not be convinced ...

    @Christoph: “In the anonymity of many forum posts, one or the other overshoots the mark.” Thank you for the confirmation. Of course, the companies assume that you have acquired the knowledge either during your studies or privately :-) It's hard to find now - but as I said, as a self-employed person, it is completely normal for you to invest first, even in your own training ... on I have collected some examples of people who have entered IT and are telling how they did it.

    @ Ralf. Thanks for pointing out ... that was the other way around with the Humanities scholars: they just have even bigger problems finding a job ...

  165. Ralf

    Hello Mrs. Janson,

    It is also a common practice for companies to advertise fictitious engineering positions, but they are not deliberately filled. This also contributes to the rumor of the “skills shortage”.

    Their comparison with the spiritual scientists is not quite clear to me. I have not heard from anyone (business, associations, politics, etc.) that there is a lack of spiritual scientists.

  166. Ralf

    Hello Mrs. Janson,

    It is also a common practice for companies to advertise fictitious engineering positions, but they are not deliberately filled. This also contributes to the rumor of the “skills shortage”.

    Their comparison with the spiritual scientists is not quite clear to me. I have not heard from anyone (business, associations, politics, etc.) that there is a lack of spiritual scientists.

  167. Roland

    By the way: great site here! You write interesting articles, keep it up!

  168. Roland

    By the way: great site here! You write interesting articles, keep it up!

  169. Roland

    But I find it a little difficult, to a targeted "conspiracy" of
    > Bundesagentur für Arbeit und Unternehmen to believe - that's what I read
    > from the contribution of Mr. Schmitz.

    Hello Simone,
    I don't think it's a "conspiracy". It is just a complete ignorance of the situation. You will only get to know them when you are an engineer yourself on the market. I also think there are jobs where the situation is far more serious than ours (although you are talking about the most complicated with the humanities), jobs where not 5 or 10 but 50 or 100 applications end up on the table. Despite everything, me and my well-known Ings. , also in other companies in the whole of Germany, it is now a mockery to speak of a lack. In any case, we are not treated like “shortage objects” but rather like interchangeable working slaves.

    As I said I suspect the industry is calling to push wages further and the media and politicians react out of ignorance. Look at the labor market, the flourishing lending companies, Ferchau, Bertrand, etc., etc. which get enough engineering names to the start.

    Somehow, you must notice that there is a certain non-logic, on the one hand lack of engineers on the other hand temporary workers?

    As far as women are concerned, I have a girlfriend who has a small odyssey through various companies (as an engineer). So what she has experienced there (one company was by the way Ford and another BMW)
    is something of evil, that I would not advise any woman even in the remotest to enter into this men's domain. Girls, stays with what is safe for you, lemming, medicine etc. Engineer means immense risk, which is much higher than that of a man in the profession.

    I have resigned myself to what it is, but I keep my eyes open for alternatives. Currently, I find it interesting to save a few years of all my money and maybe once again study. In Romania you can eg. for ~ 5000 Euro a year study medicine. Be ahead of the engineer in old age I'll be shit! I realize that there is only one thing on time, as long as I am young and powerful.

  170. Roland

    But I find it a little difficult, to a targeted "conspiracy" of
    > Bundesagentur für Arbeit und Unternehmen to believe - that's what I read
    > from the contribution of Mr. Schmitz.

    Hello Simone,
    I don't think it's a "conspiracy". It is just a complete ignorance of the situation. You will only get to know them when you are an engineer yourself on the market. I also think there are jobs where the situation is far more serious than ours (although you are talking about the most complicated with the humanities), jobs where not 5 or 10 but 50 or 100 applications end up on the table. Despite everything, me and my well-known Ings. , also in other companies in the whole of Germany, it is now a mockery to speak of a lack. In any case, we are not treated like “shortage objects” but rather like interchangeable working slaves.

    As I said I suspect the industry is calling to push wages further and the media and politicians react out of ignorance. Look at the labor market, the flourishing lending companies, Ferchau, Bertrand, etc., etc. which get enough engineering names to the start.

    Somehow, you must notice that there is a certain non-logic, on the one hand lack of engineers on the other hand temporary workers?

    As far as women are concerned, I have a girlfriend who has a small odyssey through various companies (as an engineer). So what she has experienced there (one company was by the way Ford and another BMW)
    is something of evil, that I would not advise any woman even in the remotest to enter into this men's domain. Girls, stays with what is safe for you, lemming, medicine etc. Engineer means immense risk, which is much higher than that of a man in the profession.

    I have resigned myself to what it is, but I keep my eyes open for alternatives. Currently, I find it interesting to save a few years of all my money and maybe once again study. In Romania you can eg. for ~ 5000 Euro a year study medicine. Be ahead of the engineer in old age I'll be shit! I realize that there is only one thing on time, as long as I am young and powerful.

  171. Roland

    Nice thread here.
    I am similar: above average in Berlin completed and now since 2 years a time-limited contract, although the company is billions and enough work is there. Salary well below 40k and I am at least a job to have heilfroh.
    But they can just do it, because there are enough applicants and this over-performance worsens the conditions for the workers :-(
    I can also just say MINT deficiency does not exist. From lack one can only speak, if one is of opinion 5-10 applicants per place are too little! My personal opinion: it is true that soon many retirees retire, however, I think that only the break-off of the jobs in the MINT area will somewhat cushion, an actual deficiency will not arise. There will always be enough people to study in spite of bad conditions, there are just a lot of people who want to make technology and that will never change. To do this: supply and demand, as wages rise, more people will also find the job more interesting.
    For me, the whole MINT shortage propaganda is nothing more than misty candles to distract from the actual structural and political problems in Germany.

    • Simone Janson

      Hi Roland,
      as far as I can see, it actually seems a little difficult to speak of a MINT deficiency. Indirectly Bernd Schmitz from Bayer has confirmed in another thread yes, at least he has said his personal opinion.
      But it is a little difficult for me to believe in a targeted “conspiracy” by the Federal Employment and Enterprise Agency - I also read that from Mr. Schmitz's contribution.
      For example, the situation is even worse with the spiritual scientists: from an indefinite position, indeed from a place, many can only dream of it from special job advertisements, and there are certainly more people who want to do something with culture and the media than with technology.
      So maybe the companies simply said that they need engineers, which they do, at least more as humanities scholars, and somebody thought: “Hey, engineers are wanted there, there seems to be a shortage, let's start one Campaign…"? This is also due to the fact that, in my opinion, the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a comparatively safe thing and then apply for the relevant courses. As I said: it looks worse in other subjects….

  172. Roland

    Nice thread here.
    I am similar: above average in Berlin completed and now since 2 years a time-limited contract, although the company is billions and enough work is there. Salary well below 40k and I am at least a job to have heilfroh.
    But they can just do it, because there are enough applicants and this over-performance worsens the conditions for the workers :-(
    I can also just say MINT deficiency does not exist. From lack one can only speak, if one is of opinion 5-10 applicants per place are too little! My personal opinion: it is true that soon many retirees retire, however, I think that only the break-off of the jobs in the MINT area will somewhat cushion, an actual deficiency will not arise. There will always be enough people to study in spite of bad conditions, there are just a lot of people who want to make technology and that will never change. To do this: supply and demand, as wages rise, more people will also find the job more interesting.
    For me, the whole MINT shortage propaganda is nothing more than misty candles to distract from the actual structural and political problems in Germany.

    • Simone Janson

      Hi Roland,
      as far as I can see, it actually seems a little difficult to speak of a MINT deficiency. Indirectly Bernd Schmitz from Bayer has confirmed in another thread yes, at least he has said his personal opinion.
      But it is a little difficult for me to believe in a targeted “conspiracy” by the Federal Employment and Enterprise Agency - I also read that from Mr. Schmitz's contribution.
      For example, the situation is even worse with the spiritual scientists: from an indefinite position, indeed from a place, many can only dream of it from special job advertisements, and there are certainly more people who want to do something with culture and the media than with technology.
      So maybe the companies simply said that they need engineers, which they do, at least more as humanities scholars, and somebody thought: “Hey, engineers are wanted there, there seems to be a shortage, let's start one Campaign…"? This is also due to the fact that, in my opinion, the Federal Employment Agency would like to ensure that people study a comparatively safe thing and then apply for the relevant courses. As I said: it looks worse in other subjects….

  173. Christoph

    Hello Simone,

    thank you for noting that you attach importance to factual unpolemical contributions. In the anonymity of many forum contributions, but one or the other shoots beyond the goal.

    Here is an example of a forum contribution, which represents the current defenses of today's companies very well:
    http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613

    In the forum contribution, the first writer is intensively looking for a specialist who can program HMI interfaces (HMI interface: human machine interface, a touch-sensitive screen as in the I-Phone). The specialist should be at least 3-4 years of professional experience but not older than 45 years.

    It is so that one can not study the programming of touch-sensitive screens. A computer scientist or electrical engineer can do this task very well if he is dealing with this topic in a company about 1 year.
    Since there are not so long touch-sensitive screens, the number of people who have done this before, rather low. However, due to time or financial reasons, the company can not invest a whole year in a new employee until it works productively.
    This is why the company speaks of a skilled labor force, while on the other hand there are many graduates and old engineers from the MINT subjects who are looking for a job.

    So you can see that there are two perspectives: the companies that are under pressure to spend and need productive employees and the STEM professionals who can not find a job.

  174. Christoph

    Hello Simone,

    thank you for noting that you attach importance to factual unpolemical contributions. In the anonymity of many forum contributions, but one or the other shoots beyond the goal.

    Here is an example of a forum contribution, which represents the current defenses of today's companies very well:
    http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/169613

    In the forum contribution, the first writer is intensively looking for a specialist who can program HMI interfaces (HMI interface: human machine interface, a touch-sensitive screen as in the I-Phone). The specialist should be at least 3-4 years of professional experience but not older than 45 years.

    It is so that one can not study the programming of touch-sensitive screens. A computer scientist or electrical engineer can do this task very well if he is dealing with this topic in a company about 1 year.
    Since there are not so long touch-sensitive screens, the number of people who have done this before, rather low. However, due to time or financial reasons, the company can not invest a whole year in a new employee until it works productively.
    This is why the company speaks of a skilled labor force, while on the other hand there are many graduates and old engineers from the MINT subjects who are looking for a job.

    So you can see that there are two perspectives: the companies that are under pressure to spend and need productive employees and the STEM professionals who can not find a job.

  175. Simone Janson

    Hello Mighty,
    Thanks for the hint ... I just read over your last paragraph - I am bothered again by these generalizations. I know very nice business economists, for example, who are not just interested in money :-)
    This is exactly what I meant with polemic and emotional. And it would be nice if the discutants would not use pseudonyms.
    Thank you
    Simone Janson

  176. Simone Janson

    Hello Mighty,
    Thanks for the hint ... I just read over your last paragraph - I am bothered again by these generalizations. I know very nice business economists, for example, who are not just interested in money :-)
    This is exactly what I meant with polemic and emotional. And it would be nice if the discutants would not use pseudonyms.
    Thank you
    Simone Janson

  177. Mighty

    Also note the additional threads in the subforum
    Mrs. Janson. Especially the bigger ones (extravagant)
    Threads are under very readable; If so, too
    often quite exaggerated and of subjective, bad
    Experiences.

    However, it can be stated: The big water head
    large to medium-sized companies and also the policy
    has forgotten Who in this country creates the values ​​and
    especially why. Unlike the operators, it is
    not at all just for the money.

  178. Mighty

    Also note the additional threads in the subforum
    Mrs. Janson. Especially the bigger ones (extravagant)
    Threads are under very readable; If so, too
    often quite exaggerated and of subjective, bad
    Experiences.

    However, it can be stated: The big water head
    large to medium-sized companies and also the policy
    has forgotten Who in this country creates the values ​​and
    especially why. Unlike the operators, it is
    not at all just for the money.

  179. Christoph

    Regarding the lack of STEM professionals, you have to know that we live in a “media democracy”. In a media democracy, various interest groups try to influence the opinion of the population.
    There are, for example, industry-related organizations such as the VDI / VDE which launch articles on skills shortages in the media to find cheap labor. (eg)
    On the other hand there are more and more people from the MINT area, who are suffering from the current situation and can see the situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Christoph, thank you for the links with something more concrete information, which could be very useful in a further research.

  180. Christoph

    Regarding the lack of STEM professionals, you have to know that we live in a “media democracy”. In a media democracy, various interest groups try to influence the opinion of the population.
    There are, for example, industry-related organizations such as the VDI / VDE which launch articles on skills shortages in the media to find cheap labor. (eg)
    On the other hand there are more and more people from the MINT area, who are suffering from the current situation and can see the situation: http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/132445

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Christoph, thank you for the links with something more concrete information, which could be very useful in a further research.

  181. Karen

    Hello Petra,

    I had worked several times during the semester break at companies as a working student and completed my diploma thesis at a large group in Erlangen. Unfortunately, the financial crisis and the economic slump came before a hiring.

  182. Karen

    Hello Petra,

    I had worked several times during the semester break at companies as a working student and completed my diploma thesis at a large group in Erlangen. Unfortunately, the financial crisis and the economic slump came before a hiring.

  183. Petra

    Hello to Karen and Sandra, I am particularly interested in whether you have already tried to make practical contacts during your studies, have completed internships or have participated in funding programs. I am a spiritual scientist - you have to get involved from the beginning of your studies, otherwise it will be really difficult with well-paid and interesting jobs ....

  184. Petra

    Hello to Karen and Sandra, I am particularly interested in whether you have already tried to make practical contacts during your studies, have completed internships or have participated in funding programs. I am a spiritual scientist - you have to get involved from the beginning of your studies, otherwise it will be really difficult with well-paid and interesting jobs ....

  185. sandra

    Many do not know the real situation and if you would do a statistical analysis, you would have to research very thoroughly and intensively. There are the graduates, no matter whether mechanical engineering, computer science and natural science, who either work in one of these service companies, or refer Hartz 4, who continue to study, do a doctorate or work unfamiliar to a specialist, because they have not found a job. That would interest me also burning, but certainly not the policy and certainly not the company!

    Regards

    sandra

  186. sandra

    Many do not know the real situation and if you would do a statistical analysis, you would have to research very thoroughly and intensively. There are the graduates, no matter whether mechanical engineering, computer science and natural science, who either work in one of these service companies, or refer Hartz 4, who continue to study, do a doctorate or work unfamiliar to a specialist, because they have not found a job. That would interest me also burning, but certainly not the policy and certainly not the company!

    Regards

    sandra

  187. Simone Janson

    Fits well with the discussion of yesterday): Expect #New-grown people just too much: ...

  188. Simone Janson

    Fits well with the discussion of yesterday): Expect #New-grown people just too much: ...

  189. Simone Janson

    Hello Karen,
    that's a topic, which I'll definitely pick up and research in more detail - with more precise numbers, statements from business and politics etc. I had hoped to be honest on a few statements from company side - it seems only silent To confirm your statement. Thank you for the suggestion. Something is unfortunately, as always, a time problem.
    To your decision to go to Stockholm, I can only congratulate you: Superschöne city and area there.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  190. Karen

    It would be important for the high school students to point out that the talk about a lack of MINT specialists in Germany is not true. The first semesters go to university with great expectations, with almost half remaining on the line, after the conclusion that we are not needed in Germany. This is extremely frustrating. I had not imagined myself to live and feel like a H4-Aufstocker after my launch, as politics despise us. I am pleasantly surprised by my application in Sweden. On Friday, a former colleague had given my documents in Stockholm to the personnel department of the company where he was working. Today, I received an acknowledgment of receipt by e-mail with the remark that one would be very interested and will promptly return to the application. German companies do not even receive a machine receipt confirmation, much less an answer. From this experience, my decision to reject Germany is confirmed, because here it is only annoying.

  191. Karen

    It would be important for the high school students to point out that the talk about a lack of MINT specialists in Germany is not true. The first semesters go to university with great expectations, with almost half remaining on the line, after the conclusion that we are not needed in Germany. This is extremely frustrating. I had not imagined myself to live and feel like a H4-Aufstocker after my launch, as politics despise us. I am pleasantly surprised by my application in Sweden. On Friday, a former colleague had given my documents in Stockholm to the personnel department of the company where he was working. Today, I received an acknowledgment of receipt by e-mail with the remark that one would be very interested and will promptly return to the application. German companies do not even receive a machine receipt confirmation, much less an answer. From this experience, my decision to reject Germany is confirmed, because here it is only annoying.

  192. Andy Hilker

    RT @almameise: #job chances of # MINT # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion @SimoneJanson on Participate!

  193. Andy Hilker

    RT @almameise: #job chances of # MINT # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion @SimoneJanson on Participate!

  194. Johannes Lenz

    Hello all,

    as I find an interesting discussion, which gives an insight into the reality that some will not like. What is it all about?

    I got it that way and I blame it on:

    For some time now, the government has been trying to get more high school graduates to study these subjects through the MINT initiative because graduates of these subjects are in demand.

    But Karen and Sandra are impressive in their comments.

    Ergo: MINT graduates do not get a job although they were encouraged to study and talk about a shortage of skilled workers.

    I find your statements @Karen & @Sandara really interesting and I hope you get a job. I've already pointed to this discussion here via the social media channels available to us. In any case, you can send me your CV via e-mail to pr [at] alma-mater.de and we'll see what we can do.

    A few (critical) comments: Perhaps it also depends on the study, that one has graduated in the framework of MINT, as the job chances stand. I think computer scientists almost always have good entry chances.

    In this context, generalizations are also wrong. You should look closely, for example with the help of the previous data on MINT graduates about the initiative itself or many times at the HIS or the INCHER in Kassel to inquire how the situation is according to the facts.

    Finally: I think it's great @Karen & @Sandra that you responded to the post at Simone. Your situation also reminds me a little bit of how I got into job search after graduation, even though I had nothing to do with STEM. It was difficult and often I heard the reasoning that I simply had too little work experience ... despite proper internships during my studies, etc.

    In the meantime, I am a volunteer at almat mater, have done a cool job for over a year and a half, and have completed an internship at BMW before. In addition, I am working intensively on social media and trying to develop new challenges in this area.

    I mean, there are ways, some open, even if they are sometimes hard and rocky - but you can do it. Do not hang your head and think about exactly what you want and what you can do or still have to learn. You can find advice from the recruiting team of alma mater and many other consultants. But first you have to know where the journey should go.

    Best regards from Stuttgart

    John

  195. Johannes Lenz

    Hello all,

    as I find an interesting discussion, which gives an insight into the reality that some will not like. What is it all about?

    I got it that way and I blame it on:

    For some time now, the government has been trying to get more high school graduates to study these subjects through the MINT initiative because graduates of these subjects are in demand.

    But Karen and Sandra are impressive in their comments.

    Ergo: MINT graduates do not get a job although they were encouraged to study and talk about a shortage of skilled workers.

    I find your statements @Karen & @Sandara really interesting and I hope you get a job. I've already pointed to this discussion here via the social media channels available to us. In any case, you can send me your CV via e-mail to pr [at] alma-mater.de and we'll see what we can do.

    A few (critical) comments: Perhaps it also depends on the study, that one has graduated in the framework of MINT, as the job chances stand. I think computer scientists almost always have good entry chances.

    In this context, generalizations are also wrong. You should look closely, for example with the help of the previous data on MINT graduates about the initiative itself or many times at the HIS or the INCHER in Kassel to inquire how the situation is according to the facts.

    Finally: I think it's great @Karen & @Sandra that you responded to the post at Simone. Your situation also reminds me a little bit of how I got into job search after graduation, even though I had nothing to do with STEM. It was difficult and often I heard the reasoning that I simply had too little work experience ... despite proper internships during my studies, etc.

    In the meantime, I am a volunteer at almat mater, have done a cool job for over a year and a half, and have completed an internship at BMW before. In addition, I am working intensively on social media and trying to develop new challenges in this area.

    I mean, there are ways, some open, even if they are sometimes hard and rocky - but you can do it. Do not hang your head and think about exactly what you want and what you can do or still have to learn. You can find advice from the recruiting team of alma mater and many other consultants. But first you have to know where the journey should go.

    Best regards from Stuttgart

    John

  196. Alma Mater

    #Job opportunities from # MINT # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion @SimoneJanson on Participate!

  197. Alma Mater

    #Job opportunities from # MINT # graduates equal to zero? Exciting discussion @SimoneJanson on Participate!

  198. sandra

    I can only confirm Karen, I have been unsuccessful for more than half a year. Mostly initiative, as there are no positions for graduates (biotechnology FH). Nobody even found a job out of my year, about 50% fled to a masters course (as Dpl. Ing!) And the very good ones do their doctorate. But the fact is that many graduates who finished their studies before me did not find a job here before the economic crisis and are now working abroad (Scandinavia and USA). That surprised me at that time, because it is here desperately looking for (allegedly). Now I'm also thinking of going abroad. What should one do ...

  199. sandra

    I can only confirm Karen, I have been unsuccessful for more than half a year. Mostly initiative, as there are no positions for graduates (biotechnology FH). Nobody even found a job out of my year, about 50% fled to a masters course (as Dpl. Ing!) And the very good ones do their doctorate. But the fact is that many graduates who finished their studies before me did not find a job here before the economic crisis and are now working abroad (Scandinavia and USA). That surprised me at that time, because it is here desperately looking for (allegedly). Now I'm also thinking of going abroad. What should one do ...

  200. Simone Janson

    Good luck.
    You can tell us how it works. Perhaps this also interests other MINT-Abgänger.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  201. Simone Janson

    Good luck.
    You can tell us how it works. Perhaps this also interests other MINT-Abgänger.
    gruß
    Simone Janson

  202. Karen

    A fellow student working in Stockholm took my application papers to his company. He wanted to get in touch next week. If I get the chance of a full time job, I will go to Stockholm.
    Thank you and best regards
    Karen

  203. Karen

    A fellow student working in Stockholm took my application papers to his company. He wanted to get in touch next week. If I get the chance of a full time job, I will go to Stockholm.
    Thank you and best regards
    Karen

  204. Simone Janson

    Love Karen,
    I know such statements otherwise only by humanities scholars, so I was a little surprised .. :-)
    Anyway, maybe I can make contact with companies looking for engineers. I can not promise anything, it has to be aligned. Just have a look at the days ...
    gruß
    SImone Janson

  205. Simone Janson

    Love Karen,
    I know such statements otherwise only by humanities scholars, so I was a little surprised .. :-)
    Anyway, maybe I can make contact with companies looking for engineers. I can not promise anything, it has to be aligned. Just have a look at the days ...
    gruß
    SImone Janson

  206. Karen

    Hello, I'm sorry if I have accused you of this. But my neck hair spreads when I read about a mint deficiency. My semester ended about 1 year ago (Uni Erlangen) and although in comparison to the beginning semester about 40% did not complete the course, only about 5% are in permanent employment. A group in Erlangen is currently "disposing" of engineers and IT specialists over 50 years. Many of our semesters have turned their backs on Germany and work in Scandinavia, Austria and Switzerland. Others are employed as H4 top-ups and hope for better times. Many with a good degree are also affected. In the few conversations that were allowed to take place in the HR departments, you could clearly feel the arrogance. In our view, studying is no longer worthwhile, as there is obviously no need.

  207. Karen

    Hello, I'm sorry if I have accused you of this. But my neck hair spreads when I read about a mint deficiency. My semester ended about 1 year ago (Uni Erlangen) and although in comparison to the beginning semester about 40% did not complete the course, only about 5% are in permanent employment. A group in Erlangen is currently "disposing" of engineers and IT specialists over 50 years. Many of our semesters have turned their backs on Germany and work in Scandinavia, Austria and Switzerland. Others are employed as H4 top-ups and hope for better times. Many with a good degree are also affected. In the few conversations that were allowed to take place in the HR departments, you could clearly feel the arrogance. In our view, studying is no longer worthwhile, as there is obviously no need.

  208. Simone Janson

    Hello Karen,
    Thank you for your report - even if I would have preferred a less angry polemic and a little factual background information. Correction: It is not "my" initiative, but that of the employment agency, among others - and I report on it. And whether it is out of place could be discussed with well-founded arguments, that's what this blog is for!
    I guess you are MINT graduate on job search?
    Unfortunately, they do not tell you about your background, your qualifications and the sources of your information - that would be helpful for further discussion.
    In any case, I am going to put your comment to the discussion with suitable contact persons, eg personnel specialists in the search for MINT graduates, and would be delighted if you would participate.

    gruß
    Simone Janson

  209. Karen

    I do not believe the reality on the labor market is known here. Mint graduates do not get a chance to get started and are dependent on H4. Engineers with 3 to 5 years of professional experience are given temporary contracts until mostly April 2011. Justification, if at all given, is the full free movement of labor in the EU (especially for our eastern neighbors) from April 2011. Employers expect low-leveling. Mint specialists in groups which have passed the 50th year of life are disposed of (a manager's statement in a discussion in Frankfurt). On the basis of these facts there can be no shortage of MINT specialists, at most to professionals who want to permanently live as H4-Aufstocker. With their relentless initiative, they only push more graduates into H4.

  210. Dr. Elfi Furtmuller

    During the crisis, engineers benefit from an extra-occupational MBA course, for example - this Austrian model is based on video courses and online tutoring, whereby the course can be interrupted at any time when the job gets more stressful again.

    Info on

    Information on international Executive MBA studies on the Finnish Turku University of Aplied Sciences (study language German or English) can be found here:

    • Simone Janson

      Thanks for the additional information!

  211. Simone Janson

    Hello Thorsten,
    Thanks for the comment. You do not really like statistics, do you? :-) However, there are already initial efforts to get the problem under control. The culprit is the education system and tries to help out - which may be correct. I just posted this post two days ago:.
    The latest craze, both on the part of the employment agency as well as the company, seems to be in this regard, increasingly want to bring women into technical and scientific subjects. After I dealt extensively with this topic for an article at studienwahl.de and interviewed several “affected” women (see also www.berufebilder.de/about/texte/reportage-girls-go-tech) on the topic, I see them "Girls, study technology, there are jobs" Though somewhat skeptical: In my opinion, this problem is deeper and would probably have to be addressed in kindergarten. It is a bit late to want to "redirect" the girls when they choose their degree.
    gruß
    Simone

  212. Thorsten

    Again a number of figures, which the staff will appreciate gratefully. But is it useful? There are rather copschüttelnd statistics on the hand instead of slowly slowly something to do. The companies simply do not prepare for the coming, much bigger deficiency. Although it is not a secret series and they know it long ago. How much easier is it to push the debt on the labor market and just wave with such numbers when the boss asks why you can no longer find engineers, instead of money, technology, marketing and manpower to allocate and activate as a winner out of the matter ,

  213. Simone Janson

    Why STEM education makes sense: <p> </ p> Help, shortage of skilled workers!

  214. Simone Janson

    Why STEM education makes sense: <p> </ p> Help, shortage of skilled workers!

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