VDI's Opinion on Experts' Dismissals & Throws: Systematic wage dumping or only individual cases?

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One of my readers, even an engineer with a well-paid job, recently asked the Association of German Engineers (VDI) for an opinion on the subject of professional defense. In his opinion, the VDI increasingly represents the interests of employers and no longer the interests of the engineers. Therefore, he now wants to leave the club and also move others to exit. Polemic aggravation or justified accusation? And does the VDI take seriously the threatening loss of members at all?

VDI's Opinion on Experts' Dismantling & Dumping: Systematic wage dumping or just individual cases? vdi

Here writes for you: Simone Janson, German Top20 blogger, appearances in ARD, occasional articles for WORLD, TIME, WIWO, t3n, W & V, makes Best of HR - Berufebilder.de & HR-Kommunikation. Profile

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Engineers feel badly represented


My reader (for reasons of data protection I do not want to name his name) is angry because VDI is increasingly the employer than the (mostly employed) engineers. He therefore calls for a change of course of the VDI and wants to leave the VDI after 14 member years. He wrote:

In particular, the attitude of the VDI on the alleged shortage of skilled workers is increasingly coming up to me and my engineering colleagues. Ever since the DIW study of November 2010, it has become increasingly clear that this is more likely to be a matter of large-scale employers' opinion, ultimately with the aim of achieving an OVERNOVE of skilled workers through immigration in order to be able to push engineering salaries across the board. Unemployed professionals, who may not be 1000% compliant with the employer's wishes, then fall to the social funds and thus society to the burden [...] As soon as the VDI here corrected his attitude, I will re-join, until then I will all engineers from my personal Sensitize the environment and also suggest that you withdraw from VDI.

The VDI remains a defendant


Marco Dadomo, press officer of the VDI, replied immediately last week and related to the accusations point by point. In an e-mail from the 04.01.2012 he writes:

  1. The VDI represents the interests of its members and by no means the interests of Company.
  2. The defendant is not an invention of the VDI or an employer's opinion. In the meantime, the DIW has repeatedly contradicted itself on this topic. The figures of the IW, Institute of the German Economy, which commissioned the VDI to draw up a monthly engineer's monitor, using the figures of the Federal Labor Agency as a basis, are scientifically sound and correspond to reality. 78.000 engineers are currently missing in Germany. The number of unemployed engineers has fallen to 18.370, and has thus reached a low level since records began.
  3. The VDI sees it as its duty to draw attention to the current situation and to the prospects in the future. In the coming 10 years, 500.000 engineers will leave the German labor market for reasons of age. If the current number of graduate students in the engineering sciences is taken as the basis and taking into account the constant dropout rate of just under 50% since years, these gaps can only be concluded with good luck. The existing and persistent additional need for engineers, especially in the areas of renewable energies, mobility or new technologies, is not taken into account. Before that you should not close your eyes and it would be fatal if the VDI did not always make it clear again. The journalism concerned, that is the fate of individuals, who are often used by some media, does not correspond to reality. VDI Director, Dr. In the meantime, Willi Fuchs has given an interview to Spiegel online that refutes many statements on the allegedly non-existent professional defenses.
  4. For example, the automotive industry is currently looking for thousands of new skilled workers. Obviously, this demand can not be met by the German labor market and the Federal Government facilitates the immigration of highly qualified people from other European countries - this is especially true for engineers.

Consider the subject in a differentiated way


What I personally found interesting in this answer is the statement that the DIW has repeatedly contradicted itself on the subject. This is not known to me and also in a public discussion with Dr. Dr. Brenke on the subject I have noticed nothing of contradictions.

What has become very clear, however, is that this complex issue is often considered too undifferentiated - and that it is necessary to look more closely at each case. Maybe this explains the alleged contradictions of the DIW? I would like to know more about this in this regard.

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Proposal: Members should vote on the credibility of the arguments


Something more precisely looked at my readers. He knows very well the difference between the current situation and a future, potential professional deficit. And to this he has a very concrete, interesting proposal to the VDI: It should allow its members to vote on the credibility of the arguments:

I do not deny that * in the future * times a professional deficit could arise, against which * then * may also have something to do.

But * here and today * we have no shortage of skilled workers - otherwise wages and salaries would have to rise.


Do it but in Germany for years * not * or only minimally (adjusted for inflation). The allegedly scientifically founded numbers mentioned by you do not help any further. You say you represent the interests of the members (mostly employed engineers), and at the same time commission the IW (funded by business associations and companies) to produce statistics on skills shortages? What results do you expect there? The figures mentioned are increasingly being questioned in the reputable German press landscape (and not just by some troublemakers and exotics). Even the VDE considers the alarmism of the shortage of skilled workers for (quote) "completely exaggerated".

I would therefore suggest that:

In one of the next VDI-Nachrichten you give both sides again the opportunity to comment briefly on the alleged * present * shortage of skilled workers, eg Hr. Hundt / Sinn / Henkel / Hüther versus Karl Brenke / Joachim Moeller / Heinz-Josef Bontrup / Michael Schanz / Simone Janson. And then, on your site, you are asking your members what position the readers agree to. If more than 70% of readers consider the position of the IW / VDI to be correct, this certainly confirms the VDI in its current course and they would be assured of the support of their paying members. I think this would also be an opportunity for the VDI to present itself at the height of the times, especially as the Internet is increasingly demanding basic democratic developments (as many examples of the recent past have shown). Even if we do not quite agree on the matter, I appreciate that you took my letter seriously and that I received a quick answer. Thanks for that.

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Only individual cases?


I'm curious to see how the discussion continues. In any case, I find the suggestion to publicly discuss the arguments open. This is long overdue by the widespread resentment among engineers. Even if the VDI, as in the answer here, likes to speak of individual cases and journalism: the fact is that a growing part of its members is dissatisfied with the policy of the association. That's why it looks a bit arrogant and from above.

Those who want to be taken seriously have to take their members seriously


And no matter what the figures are, the VDI would do well to continue to be taken seriously as an interest representation for engineers, to take the discomfort of its members seriously and to deal with it, rather than to make a difference. Otherwise, individual exits could be followed by mass expeditions. I just remember the beautiful side, with the o2 customers give exactly against this single case policy successfully campaigned.

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  1. Adam Shilts

    Wow, this article is really challenging.

  2. Heiko

    If you have to write a good university degree more than 200 unsuccessful applications to be heard behind time and again that lack of work experience is a major obstacle, it is a disaster that companies would rather have finished (cheaper) professionals from abroad, instead of taking the trouble to train young graduates and give them a chance. And associations like the VDI also support this instead of working for their members.

    • Simone Janson

      First of all, one should not make the mistake of seeing the VDI as an association which is committed to its members. It is an employers' association. Recently, I talked to a computer scientist on the subject and said that it is a good thing that lobbying for employers is fully legitimate for the association to lobby for the interests of its lobby group. There remains only: exit.
      In fact, companies still need to learn to invest themselves in the education of their professionals. Often, someone with very special skills is sought and if you have not just happened to have learned at the university - not reporting. Then the view abroad seems to be the supposedly cheaper solution.
      Of especially medium-sized companies, I always like to hear about the great fear that one has before investing in the training of their employees for a lot of money, because these then change with the newly acquired competence to the next employer. This also shows how much the labor market will change for all parties involved.

  3. Pingback: ARD fairy tale Labor market report: Too much features - too little analysis | Crosswater job guide

  4. Klaus Piesters

    And why do many skilled workers leave the FRG and, in return, is the immigration of all possible stress factors for taxes and additional wage costs forced into the FRG?

    If one reads the entries of the VDI in such a way, one can only be surprised. Oh, to counter this perverse Jounalismus give the an interview at Spiegel online?

    Now you know what you are.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Mr. Piesters,
      that immigration of stress factors is forced, I think for a rumor. If you are an engineer and have something to say on the subject, I would like to pass it on to a colleague of the ARD for a corresponding reportage.

    • Young Ing

      Explosive! Me: Engineer, Master's Master 2014, VDI Exit 2014! Stink sour on this business association! Isolated case?

      Certainly not! Several of my fellow students went from university to unemployment! Young professionals only have it easier than older engineers as long as women and children do not exist. We young people have the choice between thousands of cancellations and the hope to get a job with good luck or temporary work, modern slave trade, (excuse me: service providers - not so negative afflicted - but an engineer can already from his way of working out of service afford .... anyway)! Ie bad salary, no company affiliation, one leaves half Germany .... another thousand negative reasons. But the variety of projects is so great and you get taken over by a company!

      The fact is: in the projects you end up when they are already running and flying before they are finished, so the tips are buffeted, who believes to be taken today, is mistaken! The corporations have already come to the conclusion that temporary work is a permanent solution.

      If someone doubts the non-existent engineering deficiency, try to get a job at a service provider, which is also very difficult!

      Should someone think now, frustrated engineer with bad qualifications, be it: Einser conclusion, Auslandsaufenthalt, additional training, first experience as student auxiliary power! Jupp I bring with me, is not enough!

      To the ARD reportage gibs the now soon or gabs already? To express myself personally? No, then my odds are zero, even though I do not have much to lose!

      • Simone Janson

        Unfortunately, they are not an individual case and I have already covered the issue in the media. Yes, on 22. July, there will be an ARD report on the subject, in the evenings before the day. Unfortunately, this is the dilemma of the story: everyone complains, no one wants to express himself anonymously. However, it is now too late anyway.

  5. Peter Meier

    Engineers can reckon. If, according to the financial department, there are 1,6 million working engineers, but 60000 new graduates per year, remain a studded engineer 26 professional years before he is released due to his age with about 52. Or only 60 percent of the trained engineers work as engineers, the others as taxis or chancellors, the latter being rather rare.
    If the employer (see Wikipedia) IW talks about the professional strength, then these figures are known as hard facts a) that they lie and b) that the VDI makes its own lies.

    This is what all the engineers have known for a long time.

    • Simone Janson

      Thanks for the calculation example. Until May, you have the opportunity to report on your experience in an interview with the ARD. If interested, please give.

      • independent

        Why should you be so imprudent and publicly agitated? Not only we self-employed but also the employees are dependent on the fact that we have work and who is publicly expressed out there! I do not have to draw attention to the sad case from the MCNET forum, which has been publicly engaged and a union founded the engineer and then fired. Nobody touches the hot iron for fear, he gets problems! The public opinion is that there must be a skilled labor force and that howls all the wolves. The politicians are the builders of industry and not infrequently the beneficiaries of temporary work, see Mr. Clement. It would be an interesting thing for journalists to look after the many small donations that the bosses of the big engineering firms give behind their clients in the big companies, see a case in the Nürnberger Nordostpark. No, no, in such a politically desired situation, it is said to be good, to greet the foreign employees and to be nice to the outside, and to see that everything is politically correct and to see to the side that you can get your lambs dry. I still need two decades, as long as it will still be enough with the orders.

        • Simone Janson

          Hello self-employed,
          but when no one says anything, there will never be any change in public perception.
          In the broadcast the interview partners can also be anonymised. We are looking for someone who can also say something about the merits of specialists who have been trained abroad. Think about it.

    • Robert

      If this is an allusion to Mrs. Merkel, she is not an engineer in physics.

      @Simone Janson
      I find it here a very distorted representation of the situation of the engineers in Germany.
      Sure, there are people with whom it has run badly or badly, as in ALL professional groups.

      I have studied electrical engineering and have been out of the university for some time now and all my former fellow students have really started their careers on good terms. Nobody gnaws at the hunger towel. The labor market situation is much better than in many other academic "sectors".
      It is also better than chemists, biologists and even physicists.

      I also have many older colleagues, it is by no means so that every "engineer" from 50 is "outplayed". On the contrary, they are in demand specialists.

      The minority of engineers work in temporary work.

      Since they always speak of "the engineers": one must differentiate strongly in the fields of study. The labor market situation of horticultural engineers or textile engineers is certainly completely different (much worse) than that of electrical engineers or chemical engineers. I hope that is also addressed in this article in the ARD, whatever it is going to be exactly.

      You should therefore not attach too much importance to the contributions of some frustrated people, who only comment on the Internet and probably do not get the hangover in private life.


      • Simone Janson

        Hi Robert,
        You are the first person to represent this position.
        Perhaps you would like to say something about the subject in the ARD broadcast? I would like to share your contact with you!

        • independent

          but I'm curious, who is the one who has started at good conditions. I am currently (again) working at one of the largest electrical engineering companies in Germany and have been watching almost 10 years since embedded developers in electronics, software and microcontroller technology. A) less and less, b) always billger and c) more and more about time work and this by now about the domestic personnel service provider. Besagter AG annually collects millions of profits and pays its established engineers salaries around the 100.000 upwards, for new entrants there is not even half. I started working as mid-90er, there was up to 75.000 DM for an engineer with college degree. To today would be to the 60k. Many beginners do not even get 45k! That would not work if a large part of the engineers had an alternative. Beginners today are realtively cheaper to have and there is more than in my time is still a defect? The company has less and less demand, makes new developments abroad, then sends the self-employed there to manage. At the same time, the company writes one place after another, but does not occupy it! If one is experienced as an experienced one is already too old or gets a mickkriges beginner content offered, because the places from the outset are designed with persons with 5 years BE.

          How about the ladies and gentlemen journalists to send some actors to the departments who are applying with perfect CVs? Then you will see that engineers from 40 have virtually no chance unless they are specialist specialists who can be steered from the competition. The actors could then report live, how it is to apply to the service provider, how to be treated there and how to get the contracts across the table. I could call a case from my own experience, but I can not do it because I have been placed in a security area, and I can not open detailed information about my activity there. In addition, I could be sued for reputation damage, says my lawyer, so it means MUND, engineer.

          There remains then only the way of independence to get as synonymous over 40jähriger still a job, with increasing pressure! The fact is that most of the self-employed in my area are only about 70%, that is, thousands of working hours which could be increased if the companies actually needed more.

          • Simone Janson

            This discrepancy in the opinion interests me too!

      • Svenja

        So you think that only engineers are affected by the skilled labor force? I am a physicist, but I have written my thesis with the engineers. I can also take the arguments of the working engineers to 100% over to my area.

        • Simone Janson

          Thanks for the hint. No, I do not mean that only engineers are concerned, I can even imagine that physicists are even worse because of the higher theorems.

    • independent

      Right, but engineers can not only count, but also see and think, and what I get to see is an ever-expanding situation of temporary employment and outsourcing to the self-employed. That these then do not dive into the unemployment statistics is window dressing, because the temporary workers are underpaid and the self-employed underemployed! If you were to fully utilize the independent engineers working in Germany, you could replace tens of thousands of "missing" ones! That this is not exploited is the best proof that there is no more work.

      The reason for the apparently increasing number of actuators is the time work! In the few areas that boom, people are being sought, which are not to be procured ad hoc and thus the companies have problems to occupy. So they write 5 temporary workers and they switch job ads without end. The tariffs to work there, but are unterrusch! Often enough 3000, gross and a voluntary allowance are offered. That no one finds there except for the unskilled and the unemployed leads now to an over-pointed search for foreigners. At the moment Spain is being looked for, what keeps the stuff and as the Spaniards sometimes realize that they are only used up and received much less than the Germans and especially the employed, this source is also exhausting. So the Chinese and Indians are brought into the country and our own engineers have to go down with the salaries when they change and they do not find a job because of the rising fluctuation once they are 50. Then they can work as technicians. They do not appear again in any statistic, because they are not unemployed. Talk to engineers from 50. There is almost nothing, if one was outside. I have colleagues for 40 - to offer the hour as an IT computer scientist and to do the simplest jobs, while the 30 year-olds get the good projects and get double the price simply because the competition among the old ones is too big.

      I have already written the VDI for a long time. If you listen to the political speeches at official events, the gentlemen there are only concerned about the management of the decline. They are aware of the members' quarters, but they can not escape their skin and most have settled there.

      Anyone who believes in the professional box office, set a profile on Monster or XING and wait for offers. There are only dubious recruiters and temporary workers.

  6. Helmut Kohl

    If you still believe the lie about the shortage of engineers in Germany, you will miss the facts. Just ask your region engineers, employment agency employees and entrepreneurs for the alleged defect. Not only graduates but also older (from 50), experienced, qualified engineers are not hired. Price dumping and engineering services (temporary work) dominate the market. I have already heard of searching engineers' Oh, I would have become a craftsman! or who is an engineer today may no longer have a family in order to be able to change the work location at all times. '
    From my VDI (Association of German Engineers) I have paid now 23Jahre I step after the change he has made in the last now finally out. Stakeholders of engineers in Germany - that was once. "I'm not stupid ..." says even today's advertising. Today's VDI (Association of German Industry) is sponsored by the same. Since my contributions do not need more. With the CLUB and its development, press, radio and television should be intersiever times not only with the ADAC!

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Mr. "Kohl",
      Thanks for the comment. A colleague of mine is looking for an ARD reportage by the way engineers, which she would like to interview on this topic. If you are interested, please give me a brief hint. Thank you.

  7. Simone Janson

    Hello, thanks for the hint. We have repeatedly discussed the numbers of the VDI - eg here:

  8. Wirting

    How does the VDI come to such figures? These figures are manipulated in my opinion. How exactly will the missing places be determined? I am an economic engineer and unemployed like many. Meanwhile, I apply for auxiliary job jobs, but do not get one because overqualified. These figures from the labor market I doubt! The VDI seems to rely only on the employer's information. In Germany, we do not have enough engineers in the paradise, not enough doctors, not enough nurses, not enough skilled workers, not enough computer scientists, now even the artisans are getting scarce (Huuhahaha). Reality; the salaries and wages (which should not be the case for a deficiency) are falling (supply / demand), and the lecturers at the HS disseminate this propaganda to the students unchecked Simone Janson I do not know how the VDI calculated these figures, but I've read somewhere in the forum that the VDI multiplies each free position the reported by the AG is multiplied by the factor 8 that is true, then there are effectively only 10000 vacancies available for Ing., which is from my personal assessment as a realistic number of facts to bring the salaries of the engineers to an auxiliary worker level.

  9. wir-sind-vdiweb.de

    @dob: That you have formulated extremely aptly, respect:

    "The VDI now has a problem because it has sold a labor market analysis based primarily on company surveys over years as an actual state, and now in a position to hold onto this process in the blink of an eye, figures are presented differently than misrepresented and To have to qualify critics. "

    Join us on Twitter (also anonymous) or on our mailing list and above all: pass on ... Tweet ... link etc .. Thanks!

  10. dob

    Hello Mrs. Janson,

    Thank you for this article and the pursuit of the 'MINT Skill Shortage' discussion.
    After I have not pursued the topic for a while because of weariness, my first impression is that the DIW study and the many read commentaries in online forums with some delay nevertheless work. Thanks to its continuity and the links, your blog is a part of this.

    The VDI now has a problem because it has sold a labor market analysis based primarily on company surveys for years as an actual state. Now he is in the situation to hold on to bending and breaking this procedure, to represent differently determined numbers as wrong and to have to qualify critics.

    The action 'We are VDI' I wish much success.

    • Simone Janson

      Thanks for your comment. The action "We are VDI" is still looking for fellow combatants. I'm happy when my work helps to make things a little bit better.

      • dob

        I have already registered, but I'm not a member of the VDI. Unfortunately, because I would like to leave with :-)

  11. Jemand

    If one demonstrates for the equal treatment, enlightenment and equal pay for equal work, that is only in the sense of the union :)
    of course, the same pay should be the same :)
    It was just an idea ....

    My colleagues also do not consider the VDI. I can do it.

  12. wir-sind-vdiweb.de

    There is complete freedom of movement within the EU - everyone can work wherever they want, and that's fine.
    A demo at the Spaniard action in late June would be interpreted all too quickly as anti-European and xenophobic, I think - and that's far from me.

    A demo in front of the VDI headquarters in Dusseldorf I would find more interesting, since one could also call the press.

    I would be very happy if you help with such an action, perhaps in the autumn, as many people as possible.
    Help us win more comrades for * we-are-vdi * - referrals on the net on our mailing list get us ahead: Twitter, Facebook, Xing, mails, blog posts, comments ....
    And if you have an idea that costs money, we can also provide you financial support.

    Anyone who wants to stay in our picture, please send a short e-mail to us. In addition, * we-are-vdi * can also be tracked on Twitter.

  13. Jemand

    Hi, thanks, we're reading-are-vdi not with?


    • Simone Janson

      Yes, but sure is sight!

  14. Jemand

    If it is true that companies make fake tenders, unemployed engineers could create several fake email accounts and often apply for a position :)

    then the pseudomangel would be pseudogeloest. :)

    • Simone Janson

      Hello someone,
      Well, certainly funny, but my opinion not effective. I would prefer concentrated actions, such as "We are VDI".

      • Jemand

        ok, but when brainstorming is no idea taboo and I think the reference to the event in late June was not wrong. If there were unemployed engineers for the purpose of protesting for the equal treatment of foreign engineers (so that the detouches themselves would get chances), the Spanish engineers would also open their eyes. You might even be able to solidarize with the Germans.
        The high level of unemployment in Spain has certainly not arisen due to the inability of the Spanish economic elite.

        • Simone Janson

          Hi Someone, this is a good idea. Turn around with it best wir-sind-vdi@web.de, which already have a large distributor for such actions and a little money around for possible costs.

  15. Jemand

    hehe, thanks for the flowers: D

    Oops, my post was iwie not complete, wanted to write that there is an event in Villingen-Schweiningen, take place at the many interviews, but that will be clear later, I hope :)

  16. wir-sind-vdiweb.de

    * I have here a surprised * => lol saugeiler expression.

  17. Jemand

    Oh, right! I wondered one here and was already despairing :)
    Thank you!
    I hope it interested.

    • Simone Janson

      Thank you, I look

  18. Jemand

    Why can not I post more? Wanted to refer to a recruitment event for Spaniards in Villingen-Schwenningen.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello someone,
      sorry, if there is more than one link in the comment, I have to release the comment first. This is to prevent that here all sorts of people advertise ;-) Otherwise, I would not get out of the sort out. I released the first comment and deleted the other two. Thanks for the hint!

  19. Jemand

    I got on the 15.5. an email: the curls of foreign forces continues. The 2011-founded cooperation between German and Spanish employment goes on, etc. and Villingen-Schwenningen probably comes again

    Most of the jobs in Spain are in engineering.
    The links lead to offers and information about the presentations.

    <- program, it starts with the flying of the specialists, which are then accommodated in hotels. Welcome, presentation of the region, blu, bla and trullala. On 2. Day, the 26.6. the gentlemen will introduce themselves in the course of the day in a huge presentation talk event.

    If someone - rightly - wants to demonstrate, he may consider: the Spaniards are being used, they are not coming to take the job away from someone, because they really believe in a shortage of skilled workers. You do not know the situation here.

    The original text of the mail for people who know Spanish:

    Continua en 2012 la colaboración entre los Servicios Públicos de Empleo de España y de Alemania en iniciada 2011 y encaminada al reclutamiento de personal cualificado español para trabajar en Alemania. La mayoría de las ofertas que nos llegan siguen siendo dento del ámbito de las ingenierías, aunque también solicitan profesionales cualificados del metal y en menor medida profesores de español para educación secundaria y Turismo-Hostelería.

    Se va a modificar la gestión de los procesos de selección que se realizarán a lo largo de este año. Estamos haciendo un último envío de información desde este buzón de correo para difundir la convocatoria de

    Proceso de Selección para Alemania (Villingen-Schwenningen)

    Disponibilidad de toda la información al respecto aquí:

    (Noun, masculine) (adjective). (Noun, feminine) (adjective). (Noun, feminine) tenant (noun, feminine)

    Ofertas, convocatorias y proyectos de emplação de la web del Servicio Público de Emplo Estatal (SEPE):

    En cuanto al sector sanitario este año se ha iniciado una colaboración con el equipo de EURES Alemania que se ocupa de este sector para reclutar profesionales de la Medicina y que nos ha pedido enfermería la difusión de esta información:

    Les recordamos que en general sigue siendo como mínimo imprescindible un nivel intermedio de Alemán (B1) aunque en determinadas ofertas de empleo aceptan un B2 de Ingles: B1 / B2 del Marco Común Europeo de Referencia para las lenguas

    Reciban un cordial saludo,

    Equipo EURES España.

    (si ha contactado varias veces con nosotros es posible que reciba varias veces esta información)

  20. we-are-vdi

    @Kurt_C_Hose @ VDI_News Must be something disillusion, see here:

  21. Jemand

    Hmm ?! I had just posted? Is checked or has not worked.

    Thank you for the recognition. My other homeland is Spain. It says there are jobs en masse in Germany. We are thrilled with the introductory talks in MAdrid and with the aircraft charter promotions, when engineers are flown to Germany for special talks in Germany, because it is not known that the companies have to pay for the travel expenses. The Spanish engineers, whom I appreciate and like, offer themselves here for salaries, which keep German companies still for net visits. But even then it is even less than what a German could demand ... My rental company is at least happy with the mediation of Spanish workers. It is striking that many engineers work in hiring companies in human resources.

    If the other contribution is checked, it does not have to be allowed here.

    • Simone Janson

      sorry. No, the comment just did not appear, sorry, there must have been something wrong. No, is not checked.
      This is precisely the problem with the Blue Card, which criticizes the DIW.

      • Jemand

        Oh, so can happen sometimes. No problem.

  22. someone


    very well written. I have two home countries, Germany is one of them where I grew up. I spent a couple of years in the other home country, where my jobs there in Germany were presented to my fellow countrymen. Not me. I now have one that does not correspond to my profile, while my other countrymen get jobs that I have applied for. The whole work of temporary work is going on to my mind and that one is blindly pushed into places to get anything at all. I am wrong for what I am doing and / or - overqualified and deathly, because I obendrein is also constantly criticized. Maybe I have to turn my back on both homeland.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello someone,
      Exciting topic, thanks for the comment.
      Just these days I have read about the unplanned run of Portuguese specialists at Schwäbisch Hall:
      Since it would interest me, of course, which second home country is and what the people there told about the situation in Germany.

    • Simone Janson

      Hi I,
      Thanks for the compliment to the blog, we are looking forward to it! :-)

  23. Joseph


    I am not an engineer, but we have also accepted the subject of professional defense in Germany, in our blog.
    I am of the opinion that in some areas there is already a professional deficit. In many areas, however, I do not find the large-minded expert defenses.

    It is also wrong to go after the job offers. I myself regularly look through the vacancies. It is unbelievable how many of them are written out over years and not occupied. Now one might think that the companies can not find any forces. From a good source, however, I know that many well-qualified specialists apply for jobs that show only minor deviations from the job profile. Therefore, I believe that many jobs will only be given for image purposes.

    friendly greetings

    • Simone Janson

      Hello Joseph, that is certainly also an aspect of the addition and the statistics distorted. Thanks for the post.
      Simone Janson

  24. Rick-NRW

    If, according to the VDI, 70.000 + engineers are looking for the right tool.
    Where are these companies?

    So far, I only hear the employers' associations moan about an impending engineer and skilled labor force. The threat I hear for about 25 years.

    I have a job with an engineering service provider, who even calls it temporary work.
    So I can completely apply myself further.

    Job offers: 90% Temporary work
    Among other things, a nice invitations to a discussion at a temporary work / personal mediator in my area (NRW).

    "Due to the large number of applicants, we can not reimburse you for the travel costs for the interview." (That would have been about 10 €)

    This deficiency must be terrible.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello, the latest figures and the foundation of the anti-VDI-Initiative have you seen?

  25. Jupp

    This lousy lobbyist club does not even afford a professional to write the press texts. Mr. Marco Dadomo (press officer of the VDI) makes three times the "that - that" error. Tinker!

    If the rest also works like that, then I'm not surprised.


  26. damaged

    I think I do not have to point out, but nevertheless:

    Dramatic academician study: Merkel's form of formation strike alarm

    Apart from the fact that the academician / engineer lack of course is complete Kappes, I prophesied in the course of such an article and study, which is obviously placed by the corresponding lobby groups:
    that the employers' associations are crawling out of their mudholes, scrape off the morass, and make it clear that one should work on the flexibility and the (too high) salaries to remedy the lack of engineering. Because nothing attracts professionals more than lower salaries and unsafe employment, it is clear.

    A little funny aspect: in all these lobby items, complete contradictions are hidden, which are tricked with a trick (?).
    "Although the number of university graduates in a class has increased from 2000 to 18 percent since the year 25, Germany is falling internationally."

    In principle, the striking contradiction is always taken up (for example, also with respect to the rather falling engineer salaries and the precarious mass employment situation of the engineers) and with a succinct sentence in doubt - admittedly without arguments. "Despite falling salaries, the shortage exists, companies do not get engineers".

    Then still engineers service (= Zeitarbeit, and NOTHING else is that) as positive and ignore that all companies their engineers as a cheapwöhner outsource, even Daimler his engineer company even SOLD and finished is the lobby riot. Excuse me when I'm partial.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello, Completed,
      maybe I do not even have to point to the concerted action that has just been launched against the VDI:

      You can connect like-minded people there and direct your understandable anger into constructive paths.

      Simone Janson

  27. We-are-VDI

    Hello victim & Mrs. Janson

    unfortunately I have only now the opportunity to contribute to your excellent discussion. The letter cited above in the excerpts to the VDI comes from me, thank you for your recognition.
    I just created a new email address (wir-sind-VDI@web.de) to bundle our interests. I think there can be something going on.

    I have references from a serious source, which says that the VDI with wrong figures to the alleged professional defenses operate.

    If you would like to be kept up-to-date on the next procedure, please send a short e-mail to * wir-sind-VDI@web.de


  28. damaged

    Is there something new to the "future of work"? I did not find anything about the subject here, but also in the mainstream, with appointments here on the site (after this date) nothing new.

    Incidentally, the VDI employers' association feels called to pay homage to the lack of engineers - and as always the answers are beyond credible or satisfying:

    Discrimination topic Professionals - "Half of engineers will retire soon"

    • Simone Janson

      Hello victim,
      but I have the whole discussion mitgeschnitten, listen here:
      However, little was said about this, so the focus of the article is on another excitement.
      As for IBM, there have already been a few messages. However, on the occasion of my presentation I met with the labor law professor Professor Dr. med. Peter Wedde, who has just completed his PhD on teleworking at IBM (see eg www.sapler.igm.de/static/.../PeterWedde_SAP-Website_2007.pdf) and thinks the idea is an old idea in a new guise, that did not work before 20 years ago. I also wanted to read in - but: time ... sorry.
      I am, of course, glad about further information on the subject.

  29. Simone Janson

    Hello victim,
    thanks for this very useful hint. Fittingly, on the 8. A discussion between Federal Minister of Labor Ursula van der Leyden and Katharina Borchert from SPON on the topic "The Future of Work" will be held there on February 11th. I will talk about the discussion. Possibly. there is also a video or the thing is being streamed. For more information please click on dates above - and then on said date.

    Also, this is a very good example of a lecture that I am holding just this evening. So double thank you!

  30. damaged

    Here again a small, very very very sad addition to this:

    "[...] In future, the group will only be managed by a small core workforce, while specialists and skilled workers will want to hire IBM on a specially founded Internet platform. [...]

    Similar to the Facebook social network, workers in the IBM model could receive reviews and testimonials from employers, which are then viewed by other companies. According to the IBM paper, the workforce organized in a "cloud" would receive international employment contracts to circumvent restrictive regulations in their home countries.

    In addition, they should be employed only for the duration of the respective projects. Such a system, where global workers compete for short-term jobs on Internet platforms, would bring huge savings to corporations such as IBM and significantly increase efficiency.

    [...] the number of permanent full-time jobs dropped from 1999 to 2009 by 18,5 percent. [...] At the same time, the number of atypical forms of employment - such as temporary employment or solo self-employment - has increased by almost 79 percent. "

  31. damaged

    Too bad that this topic (at least here, I am not writing on microcontroller.net) is not reger discussed.

    I would like to report from my "individual case" for a given reason. As mentioned before I am very dissatisfied with the profession and the future prospects of the engineer despite very good employment.

    I started an application initiative some time ago to explore the market. Overall, I have just sent 60 applications. I was not able to place more than 12 applications on advertised positions. There were already jobs, but their requirements were REAL. Almost perfect for the 12 positions. The rest were unsolicited applications - but only where they were explicitly required (and this is not often the case despite blatant "lack of engineers").
    Now, a long time later, I can announce that I've got in the engineer belt belt here in the southern Germany exactly 0 answers or invitations.
    That does not surprise me, because IBM, Daimler MBtech (which incidentally disguises a PR image campaign as job offers!), NSN and a few more "equalize" the "tense" engineering market.
    Before now someone thinks again own guilt, individual case, ...:

    I've been applying LAST WEEK to a non-technical job that puts me in a completely different direction. The conditions - especially the salary - are certainly worse in the beginning, but better safe than soon unemployed.

    And lo and behold: I have an interview immediately!

    I was completely amazed, I have never experienced this as an engineer! You apply and will be INVITED!

    I explain to someone why the hangerdig seeking companies the engineer not at least invite or at least cancel (no, I'm certainly not in-the-loop, which have no buck on the effort of the cancellation).

    So, with a bit of luck, I soon leave the profession and start in an exciting, challenging and, above all, human area, which has very good prospects for the future, in contrast to the engineering profession.

    Funny I then count to the 1 / 4 engineers who professionally work and distort the statistics of the engineer deficiency.

  32. damaged

    Thanks for this article and the efforts of the anonymous engineer (unfortunately I was not), he speaks to me from the soul and reveals the state of both the VDI and the employers' associations.

    I would like to point out another "problem": no other profession is as heavily affected by outsourcing to foreign countries as the development engineer. Whether the job Bertrand in Germany or any Indian / Chinese service provider makes yes employers do not care. A small example here is the sale of MBTech (ex-Daimler's own engineering service provider) to a French service company, motto: only engineers who develop product parts (eg powertrains) are involved.

    As a matter of fact, in the future, in addition to the oversupply of engineers that already exist, we will see the massive dismantling of engineering jobs. From the 500000 "vacant" posts are so fast 100000.

    • Simone Janson

      Hello victim,
      Thank you for the additions: Do you have studies that take the outsourcing abroad?
      In addition, you can also write to the VDI and support the action.

      • damaged

        No, unfortunately no studies. My knowledge is related to our own way of working (unfortunately) and to a knowledge about a certain big automotive supplier. Would be nice if this were quantified. I see the analogy to the skilled worker, because what can be outsourced (no matter how bad) the WIRD is outsourced according to company logic.

        What you could probably just quantify would be the growth and the absolute figures for engineer-time work and engineer "service provider" (-> badly masked temporary work), which take frightening proportions - but you have already (partially) reported. This is just as good an indicator for IMHO that it will soon be zappenduster for the engineers ...

        I'm also willing to take the engineers also actively to take sides, even against the VDI but I'm NOT a VDI member (but VDE). It was clear to me long before I recognized the disastrous state of the engineer that the VDI is an employers' association and represents massive employer interests.

        Incidentally, there are good arguments about the VDI in the Wikipedia discussions on the VDI - and that he now runs a pure employer lobby:


        "Fact is also that the lobbying (shortage of skilled workers / EngineerING Card) of the VDI is now criticized not only by the media, by other engineering associations and unions, but also among the personal VDI members numerous protests in the form of letters to the editor, contributions in The dissatisfaction of some of the VDI members is also reflected in the poor poll numbers in the 2011 membership poll, which, unlike previous years, has not been published on the VDI homepage, and has been published in 2010 even led to the formation of a community of interest against the lobbying work of the VDI. "

        Another Fun Fact:
        I also got enticed by the false promises in the Ing study (yes, I also wanted to become an engineer and have the skills and interests, but also yes I would never do it again and otherwise would have chosen a career with perspective). Now 14 years have passed! So I hear this UNLEASH Lamentation there would be "soon" a lack of engineers since MORE than 14 years. How many 14 years will it take until the real engineering shortage? How ridiculous can you be as an employer association?

  33. character Display

    #Blogpost Statement of the VDI on skills shortages and exit threats: Systematic wage dumping or just egg ...

  34. Simone Janson

    #Blogpost Statement of the VDI on skills shortages and exit threats: Systematic wage dumping or just egg ...

  35. Liane Wolffgang

    Statement of the VDI on shortage of skilled workers and threats of withdrawal: systematic wage dumping or only isolated cases? ...

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